w/ Daphné Eastmond, Frizz + Co
Building Frizz + Co: Haircare, Shopify, and Community
Daphné Eastmond ditched the CPA grind to create Frizz + Co, a brand that says screw the stigma and celebrates textured hair. From her raw startup struggles to her bold in-person events, Daphne shares how she’s making haircare personal—and real.
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Kurt Elster
This episode is sponsored in part by Address Validator. Did you know incorrect addresses cost US businesses $20 billion every year? That's $216,000 on average per company, just gone thanks to failed deliveries. Think about that extra re-delivery fee, the handling costs, and worst of all, unhappy customers who might never return. But here's the good news. Address validator has your back. It integrates seamlessly with Shopify to catch and correct address errors before they become costly problems. Every day it validates over 300,000 orders. and prevents more than 11,000 failed deliveries for brands like Sennheiser, Heli Hansen, and even Kylie Cosmetics. And it's a no-brainer to try You can validate shipping addresses on your first 100 orders for free, no strings attached. Plus you could track exactly how much you're saving in the address validator dashboard. So stop letting bad addresses drain your revenue. Head to the Shopify App Store and get address validator today. Today on the unofficial Shop by Podcast, we're going to be discussing hair care. All right, why not hair care? I'm busy, you know, I I wash my hair every day and I blow dry it. That seems pretty good. I'm I'm getting somewhere that uh can't complain. Uh but Certainly there are stories, entrepreneurial stories, about hair far more interesting than my own, a middle-aged man who just likes to blow dry. And to discuss it, we've got Daphne Eastman, who quit a a successful career as a CPA to start Frizen Co. Frizen Co. does hair care, celebrates hair care for uh textured hair. Daphne, I want to hear this story. And it sounds like you're You're early in your journey. I want to know where this goes. What uh what is what is Frizzin Frizen Co. It's Frizen Co. , right? Correct, correct. Frizenco. And the the website's Frizhair. co. Yes.
Daphné Eastmond
Yes. Well, thank you so much for having me on the show. I'm really excited to chat more about the whole journey behind the brand that I've been building for the past few years. When'd you start it? I started it in 2020 at the height of the pandemic. Um it took a lot of uh trial and error formulation before getting the final product, which is our heel product, our repairing hair mask, that launched in August of 2022.
Kurt Elster
Okay. What sparked the decision? How does this start in 2020?
Daphné Eastmond
I think there are multiple things that actually inspired me to start this brand. I think that it was a time at which I was really, really unhappy with the job I was in. Um, I was working in audit. It was a long a a lot of long hours. Um and it was just kind of a a shift where I wanted to do something better for myself. Um, and the reason why I launched hair care was because of my own personal journey with my hair, where I've struggled for as long as I can remember to navigate or even just accept the texture of my hair. I consistently try to defy the laws of physics to reach straight hair. Which looking at my hair, it's very textured, it's very curly, it took a lot of effort, and it was just I was just unhappy with the way that I looked. And I think that frizz is a long journey of self-acceptance where by building a brand that I wanted to buy into, I was kind of forced to rethink the way that I looked at my hair, the way that I talked about my hair, the way that I showed up, uh whether it be online or in person, um, with my hair being in its natural state.
Kurt Elster
So there's Self-image is here. There's a lot of psychology and societal pressure wrapped up in our hair, isn't there?
Daphné Eastmond
Absolutely. Um, and I don't think that this is a me issue. I think that there are a lot of women and men that have uh curls and texture that uh struggle with this issue, whether it be in the workspace, whether it be in dating, uh, or even with their own family. Um So there's a lot of pressure around here.
Kurt Elster
What is the what is the pressure? What's what's the stigma?
Daphné Eastmond
The stigma is that natural hair looks unprofessional. Um, I think that and I can only speak for myself and my experience. I've ha had uh even in the workspace people comment on my hair. Which is very awkward. Especially in the era of Zoom. I feel like people just got more comfortable uh discussing the way my hair looked, the fact that it was big. Oh my god, it's so curly. Okay. That wasn't the point of the meeting, right? So it's just uh yeah, it's really awkward or even just having to think how I show up, for example, in interviews. Should I straighten it? Do I leave it curly? If I go on a date, will the person like my natural hair? Should I straighten it? So there's there's a lot of a lot of thought and energy that goes behind the way that I show up in different uh social contexts.
Kurt Elster
And what is it about the pandemic that made you hit a point where you said, all right I'm going to do something about this. Like what is the the why not me moment that leads you to suddenly creating hair care products?
Daphné Eastmond
I don't know if there was a why not me moment. I think there was just a moment of pure ignorance, um, and naivety. uh that I thought that I could just create a hair care brand. Um I don't think I really thought of my role as a founder. I think it was more like this need to do better in a space that has been uh overlooked uh for the sp sp specific segment, sorry. Um so is more like just reaching out to people, um, and putting one foot in front of the other to a point where now I have a brand.
Kurt Elster
So what uh When you set out to develop the repairing hair mask, what's the process there? What's the challenge? I wouldn't know where to begin.
Daphné Eastmond
Right. Um I didn't either, to be honest. Um but the first thing I did was I went out on LinkedIn, reached out to chemists. I called a few labs in the in Montreal. And they all kind of pointed me towards a chemist, the person who I worked with to formulate this product. And she was able to guide me a lot more as to what I needed to do. We started chatting with about the product I wanted, what I wanted it to do, the ingredients I wanted in, um, the ingredients I wanted to avoid when it came to uh this product So that's where it all started. And on her end, she provided with different directions that I wanted to take this product in terms of main ingredients, uh, conditioning bases. And then she formulated samples to which I was able to test and see what I preferred. And then we reiterated based on the feedback that I was either giving her or from close friends that I was collecting.
Kurt Elster
So you were you were customer number one developing this product one-on-one with a chemist, and then it sounds like you had a little bit of a focus group, friends and family. Um that how did how long did that process take? How did that go in in shaping this the repairing hair mask which becomes your flagship product?
Daphné Eastmond
Correct. Um it took about two years in total from reaching out to actually launching a product. Um Formulation was something that I had never done. So it was really important for me to take the time to really make sure that it catered to as many crawl types as possible to get as many feedbacks. Because as much as I am uh customer, number one. Uh there are so many other people to who I want to cater to. And there's so many like the spectrum of curly hair is so vast that I just wanted to make sure it catered to as many curl types as possible.
Kurt Elster
And all right, you're new to the beauty industry, you're a CPA, but that doesn't help you formulate things. I imagine you're new to chemistry as well and product development. This and you're bootstrapping this, right? Yeah. How Do you navigate a learning curve like that?
Daphné Eastmond
Oh, um, it's one that I'm still trying to navigate. Uh I think for me it was the importance. of leaning on people who knew what they were doing. Um I think the chemist was an incredible, incredible player in helping me navigate this whole process. She guided me through finding manufacturers, through finding uh sourcing ingredients, through my relationship with the lab. So she was a huge player, I would say, listening to podcasts, um, joining entrepreneurship groups, um, trying to connect with people who had done it before because Yeah, I it's still a curve that I'm trying to navigate. I think the beauty industry is one that is so different from the one that I know. Um, but it's one that I'm really, really passionate about. So I'm Yeah, I'm really excited to be in this in this space.
Kurt Elster
So once you've got the product developed, you're happy with it, this really now the hard part's begun. We need we need an audience, we need a brand, packaging, and we gotta mass produce this thing. So entirely new sets of challenges appear. This is like, you know, a pulling the thread on a sweater. It just keeps going. So once You're happy with it. Now you've spent the money on it, right? It wasn't free to do this. And now it's almost like you gotta keep going. So where do you go from there?
Daphné Eastmond
Yeah, so once we do have the formula, my next step was sourcing ingredients. She the the chemist did have a base of ingredients at the lab, but that was not enough for a mass production Um it was sending the formula to the lab. Um, it was finding the right jar. Um, so because the formula is natural, there were so many, so many um considerations or factors uh to consider. For example, the jar, material of the jar could alter the formulation. So there was another series of tests that we had to go through. Um, and that's again just through the production manufacturing process. You were talking also about the branding, the audience. Uh I was starting from scratch completely, um, and being someone that is uh not super active online. It was really hard showing up in that way, um, building an audience, uh putting yourself out there in ways that you've never had to before, being that vulnerable the the vulnerable side of you showing on social media, being like, hey, I've created this thing. Uh I think you'll like it. Uh how can I, you know, convey all of the why I'm passionate about this brand. It was it was a lot of work.
Kurt Elster
When did you build the Shopify store?
Daphné Eastmond
Ooh, I built the Shopify store um so I said I launched in August of 2022. I would say probably like started in May, April.
Kurt Elster
You know, I'm on the site now. It looks really good. This is a nice site. I imagine it's involved considerably. Or did it always start this strong?
Daphné Eastmond
Uh it always started this strong. Um, I think that and this is maybe a me issue, the benchmark for me when I was building my brand was always brands I looked up to that were either in Sephora or um had been in the market for a considerable amount of time. So when I was building my brand I was measuring myself against these brands that had been there for a significant amount of time. So there was this pressure to show up in a way that maybe a new brand isn't expected to show up as. So I worked with a designer slash developer on the website and she helped me build it to the way that you're seeing it now.
Kurt Elster
Yeah, because it it looks great. At this point now we've got our we've got our hero product. We've got it packaging. We've sourced our ingredients. We're able to start uh getting it mass produced. We've got this glorious website. It's on Shopify. It it's representative. Now the truly difficult part. Getting people to purchase it for the first time, reaching people, finding the audience. That's oh, it's tough. You're just like screaming into the void, it feels like sometimes. Tell me about that experience.
Daphné Eastmond
Absolutely. Um it's funny because I remember writing my first business plan um to collect grants to to finance this thing and I remember projecting sales almost immediately. Um and it's funny because that's Not the case. Like I said, I didn't start out with a built-in audience. So okay, the the page is live, but that doesn't mean people are on the website. So it was a lot of work of like, okay, what are ways um in the budget that I can afford to attract people? Um, because that's the other thing. If I had an unlimited amount of budget, I could have hired a bunch of people to help me with PR, to help me with ads, to help me with probably partnerships, but it was trying to find ways with my scrappy budget to make the most impact as I could Uh so it was trying to work with local influencers at the time, sending them products. It was connecting with stylists because they, in my opinion, are the original influencers. They have their own clientele. If a stylist recommends a product, you will most likely purchase the product. So it's how can I get into their roster? I did dabble in ads also through Meta. uh which was a struggle on its own. Um but yeah I think those were the main tactics. Also also email marketing was one that I that I did at the time.
Kurt Elster
Okay. And you know one thing I forgot to ask. When you picked Shopify, why was it Shopify? Like was it just no question? You're like, well yeah, that's obviously what this goes on, or was there a comparison that made?
Daphné Eastmond
There was no question for me. Um there were so many entrepreneurs that had recommended Shopify uh in my mind it seemed like the most user-friendly. There were so many apps around Shopify that uh helped you manage, grow your business. So For me, there was no question about using Shopify as a platform.
Kurt Elster
What was the moment where you went, this is gonna work? Like I have not just flushed a year down the drain.
Daphné Eastmond
Yeah. Um I think for me it was about when I started getting feedback from people using a product, uh, like general appreciation. of using the product. It was also when I started hosting in-person events where people like generally expressed their gratitude for the community that I was building. Um and that was kind of my why, right? It was about serving this community that was misunderstood and underrepresented in ways that other brands weren't uh it was about that intentionality behind the product that we were formulating and the initiatives around it. So to get that mirrored back to me, that was the success that I that I would consider.
Kurt Elster
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Daphné Eastmond
Yep. Correct. Yeah.
Kurt Elster
How does How validating must that have been?
Daphné Eastmond
I think it was quite unreal. Um I think that even when I organized events, I was always expecting to be myself and my close friends and Worst case scenario, we would have like a very intimate gathering. But seeing people that I didn't know show up and actually participate and express their gratitude towards what we were doing, that was unreal.
Kurt Elster
Tell me about these in-person events. Like help help me picture it. Where how big are they? Where are we putting them? It's not the easiest thing necessarily to do an in-person event or to get people to care and show up. What What's that look like?
Daphné Eastmond
Um yeah. The first event I ever organized, I definitely overextended myself. I had really big ambitions. Um, I'm I guess I'm the type of person that either goes big or goes home. Uh and I definitely try to go big. Um we organized a panel. conversation for one year around how uh hair influenced our panelists' journeys So for example, we had uh Tony Fifi, she's a TV host and influencer. We had Jessica, who is a friend of mine, she is a DEI uh specialist. And we had uh Jennifer Lawrence, who is a stylist, and it was just about understanding how hair impacted everyone's journey, whether it be as a TV host and influencer, as a DI specialist, navigating maybe workshops in the workplace, and a stylist, how to best care for your hair in different situations. Um so organizing this event, it was in Toronto. I uh reached out to a bunch of venues, but it was important for me to support uh black owned businesses. So we hosted it on a rooftop at the Ode Hotel on Dundas. Um, and just creating the guest lists, getting sponsors, getting food, getting drinks, um, it was a lot of work. So that was my first event. Um for the the the next ones we we did it a bit smaller. Uh my latest one was an open mic night. uh during Black History Month and the theme was when did you fall in love with their curls? Um and we actually I think we were close to selling out that event so we were about twenty, twenty five people. Um and what surprised me the most is that the participants actually went and shared when they fell in love with their curls, because there's one thing about showing up. But then taking the stage and sharing this super vulnerable moment in front of people that you don't know. That was the other, the other part that I wasn't sure people were gonna do. So and they did. Um and it was super special because again, I think that navigating curly hair, you feel kind of isolated. You feel like all of these moments, you're the only one going through them, going through the hardships. Um and then During moments like these, you realize that there are so many other people that have navigated through texture trauma or through uh just this self self discovery or even hatred of the hair. Um so I think that that was the a really special one
Kurt Elster
Yeah, the these in-person events, they they sound incredible. I mean the most recent one you described sounds like you're hosting your own moth radio hour events. It sounds cooler like TEDx. I don't know. It it sounds very impressive. What I see the value in it. And I'm also impressed that you were able to sell tickets to it, right? At least you could break even on it, plus then all the intrinsic value to the brand and the customer, the community, and yourself. How has that strengthened sales of the brand?
Daphné Eastmond
I think for me it's just about differentiating ourselves and having that um or showing more that we care for our community. I think that having product is one thing, but having these community initiatives just strengthens uh our position as a key player in the hair care industry and as someone who is trying to build a brand with intention. So I think that gives us a little bit more credibility than just like showing up online with a bunch of With a bunch of ads. Um Yeah, I think that's the added value to it.
Kurt Elster
For sure. The the it's also the FaceTime that you get with your customers. Definitely. Initially, and for a lot of brands, this is very common, we've discovered, especially with bootstrapped Shopify stores, is you are in When you develop this product, it's because you had that painter problem in your life. You are initially customer number one, but over time as it evolves, you discover you know you are not the same as every customer, of course. And so as you're getting, you know, this very direct real experience with customers, you're getting feedback. How has that shaped, changed your approach to branding or product or just surprised you?
Daphné Eastmond
Yeah. It's funny because I was actually part of an incubator recently where our goal was to have 100 conversations with our target audience. And y it definitely has shaped the way that I see the brand, the way that I understand the customer's pain point. Um as you've mentioned, customer one, you kind of build a brand to the best of your knowledge or best of your ability based on the issues that I was facing. But when you interact with customers or your target audience you really understand or they use words um that they are looking for when it comes to hair care or the products that they're looking for. So I feel like it really broadened the way that I can see what their issues are. Understanding the language that makes them tick.
Kurt Elster
Aha, the language, right? Oftentimes you discover the cut the audience, the customer, your people. speak differently about the product, the experience, the brand than you do. Anything and it does anything come to mind as like a specific that surprised you?
Daphné Eastmond
Yes. Um so for example for myself I see my hair care regimen as this kind of uh self-care regimen that even if it takes all day, I really don't mind. Um it's something that I enjoy doing versus a lot of people are like I just want it to be in and out quick, simplify it. Instead of using 10 products, I want five products. Instead of taking me three hours, I want it to take 30 minutes. So there's like this Okay, but I was imagining this whole self-care thing where you actually plan it out and stuff, and they're like I don't have time for that. I need it fast. Um, so that was one thing. Um, education is also a big thing. I assumed that everyone knew. kind of the basics when it comes to taking care of curly and textured hair. And sometimes I get questions where I was like, oh I thought, for example, deep conditioning time, do I use it on wet or dry hair? So yeah, education is also a big piece that I'm starting to understand that people are missing in their journey when it comes to purchasing hair care.
Kurt Elster
Wait, which is the right answer? Wet or dry hair?
Daphné Eastmond
Wet hair.
Kurt Elster
Okay, that's what I thought.
Daphné Eastmond
Yeah.
Kurt Elster
I had it right. But I was like, wait, I don't actually know. Um The okay. Within Shopify itself, any are there any apps, features, tools that you're like, yeah, I can't live without this. This is a real game changer for us. Sometimes it's hard to know because you're just like you're like, yeah, of course it works.
Daphné Eastmond
Yeah, yeah. And I that's a really good question. I think there are a few few features. Um Design PAX is one that has allowed me to really pimp out my site easily. It's an app.
Kurt Elster
It is an app. And Thomas. Who we we worked with for several years is the co-founder of that. She developed that app. It's really good.
Daphné Eastmond
It is really good. It's for someone who has never worked on Shopify, it has allowed me to adapt my my website without uh hiring someone else to do it. So that's a great app. Analytics is one that I'm always on. Obviously it's like just a key feature. In terms of apps, chit chats is one that I use. What's that? I've never heard of it. It's for shipping.
Kurt Elster
Okay.
Daphné Eastmond
Um so they provide better rates than Canada Post, et cetera. Um Okay.
Kurt Elster
Yeah, and that's like such a cost center. So every time you have a you're successful and get that purchase, you gotta pay for a shipping label. So anytime you could reduce the cost there or improve the experience for the customer, a win. But certainly shipping just not a sexy topic.
Daphné Eastmond
No, but essential, unfortunately.
Kurt Elster
For sure. Looking back on it, if you were to rebuild, you know, we're what's something you would have done differently
Daphné Eastmond
Yeah, I think that I would have been scrappier. I think that I what I would have tried to do aggressive more aggressive with less investment uh from the start. Um I think even leaner.
Kurt Elster
Even leaner. Real bootstrap.
Daphné Eastmond
Oh yeah, yeah. I I definitely you know, try to pursue this image of it being the perfect brand, etc. But I think that just a simple landing page a couple of dollars a day towards ads, collecting that email and trying to pre-sell product before launching or even having e and product ready. is something that I do know.
Kurt Elster
It's advice I give people. It's advice it I've we've heard before. It's absolutely true. And there's so many people out there who are starting are gonna hear it and then are gonna ignore it. And then later they're gonna give the same advice. Yes. It's a really easy thing to be like, yeah, you know, uh let me I I just wanna get it perfect first. Like that's I think that's what happens. Is you're like, well I I You know, it's your baby and it's weird and it's scary. And you don't there's a double-edged sword to launch at you trying to sell is like, okay, now the rubber meets the road and you have to face the consequences of your actions in a way. And so I th I think that's people's resistance to like that, hey, let's just early try and sell, try and get build the audience, you know, try and do those things. And also, you know, they're harder, they're less fun. Then the product development can be fun, the brand development could be fun. I don't know. Agree or disagree.
Daphné Eastmond
Agree. A hundred percent agree. Because there's also, again, there's feedback that you haven't considered during the the formulation or product development process that you'll get. Once people start interacting with your product, and if you've put so much money into it from the get-go, then it starts becoming hard to make these adjustments and perfecting and reiterating. Um versus if you start very lean, um start getting samples out there, um, start collecting feedback, collecting that brand credibility, then it becomes easier to adjust and really really nailed a product for your target audience.
Kurt Elster
And so would that be that would be what you would do differently? Would that be your same advice for, you know, first-time entrepreneurs starting out in the beauty space? Yes.
Daphné Eastmond
Yes. If I were to formulate a second product, that's exactly how I would do it. I would get samples out to as many people as possible, collect feedback, and just go from there.
Kurt Elster
Do you it as soon as I hear samples out, I also think about product seeding, you know, where you you when you it's nice to have a a hair care product like this where You know, it's gonna be a little, it's easier to ship, it's lower cost, you could give away samples. Um have you used product seeding where like you intentionally try and give the product away to influencers to generate user-generated content organically? Yes. Yes, I have. What was that experience like? Successful?
Daphné Eastmond
Frustrating? Yes, frustrating. Uh I think there's this idea that the bigger the influencer, the bigger the impact, and that is simply not true. Um I think finding micro influencers or even local micro influencers in your community will have so much more impact than choosing that big that big influencers with hundreds of tho and thousands of followers.
Kurt Elster
Um I have exper I've heard the ad this advice. I have experienced this myself. I don't have an explanation for it other than Perhaps the the more niche dialed in micro influencer that's got you know ten to twenty thousand s audience followers. Those are the folks that can just better connect with people than the really big ones. But I don't know. It's like it it but it's surprising. You're right. It's like you'd rather have ten small people than one Kim Kardashian.
Daphné Eastmond
Correct. Yes. I I I was thinking the same too. I think it's just they're more connected. They probably are out here sponsoring less products. I think that if you're you're interacting with an influencer that has a hundred thousand followers, she probably receives so many, so many products. So I feel like at the end of the day, yours just get diluted in the sea of products that she gets. So how I don't know, I I feel like people are are a lot more conscious conscious of uh these product placements, influencer recommendations. So
Kurt Elster
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Daphné Eastmond
Um yeah, that's a good question. I think that for me it was a focus on vanity metrics versus actual Metrics or actual impact. Yeah. So vanity metrics for me is just like how people perceive the brand. Um it's am I getting good press? Who's talking about it? Um who reposted? How does my photography look um versus actual metrics where we're talking about actual sales, actual um, you know. Yeah, actual sales.
Kurt Elster
The stuff that does and doesn't move the needle is like that seems to be a theme here. The things that do and don't move the needle on how much money you make. are often surprising, right? Like social media is so addictive. And on the outside, it's like, that's wow. That's the thing. If I could just be big on social media, it hardly you know, guarantees any success. It doesn't translate directly to sales certainty. Um I think that's a big one that that we all all fall victim to, myself included, right? Like who doesn't want to be acknowledged in some big splashy way online, but that's not it's not gonna grow your business by any means. No. Um so what's then with all this experience, what's then the the effective marketing strategy. Like what's what's the one you love?
Daphné Eastmond
Yeah. I think my favorite one will always be in-person events.
Kurt Elster
Hmm. So how wait remind me, how often are we running these?
Daphné Eastmond
So I had a goal to aim to to run them once a quarter. That is my goal. Um, that's your goal.
Kurt Elster
How often have we been managing?
Daphné Eastmond
Yeah. So the last one was last year. So not that great on that end. Um, but I think that those are unbeatable. I think they're yeah. For someone that's starting like like me, it's Just having those like that face-to-face is just hard to beat.
Kurt Elster
Absolutely. Well, we've heard that for I've often heard it for people who are bootstrapping where like they they're not hosting their own events, but we'll go to other events. You know, like you could get a table at some s at a sporting event and sell as a um and sell merchandise. Absolutely. And man, that really The outsized impact that has, because it it makes an impact on people. They remember you. And you like it not just the sales and the and the return sales, but also the word of mouth. Um and just you know talking to people face to face and getting that experience. It makes it real. It really does. Of course.
Daphné Eastmond
Because as someone who's not a marketer, like sometimes maybe some Some of the things can get lost in translation when they interact with my brand online versus in person. I could actually really explain, get behind why we started it, why this product is great, how to use it. Um so I feel like you can cover the all of the touch points answer questions versus online it could be a little bit more complicated.
Kurt Elster
Yeah. Well yeah. It's tough It's a lot harder than it seems to communicate these things in in a website in marketing copy, both in you know getting people to see it and find it and and internalize it and just communicating it properly. Like a it It's such an deceptively difficult skill. Well, all right, we've got our our favorite marketing tack it's tactic is in-person events. What I want to know like what's the soggiest, limpest, lamest one, right? What's the the marketing tactic that never goes as planned? Maybe it's it's product seeding.
Daphné Eastmond
Yeah, that's what I that's what I was gonna say. I had such high hopes when I started uh working with influencers and Yeah, I just it rarely worked.
Kurt Elster
Is it because of the space? Like is just, you know, is beauty and hair care s a crowded space for that tactic?
Daphné Eastmond
I think it is. I think it is. But I think again, the consumer is getting smarter. And I think that they don't fall for influencer placement that much anymore. I think they're looking for a lot more authentic um authentic people to connect to. Um so they will have like for example key YouTubers or key influencers they'll build trust because they have built that trust over years. Um, but it's not every influencer that can have that level with their with their audience. So
Kurt Elster
Yeah, I feel like uh Are you able to identify those influencers by just talking to your customers at these in-person events and then you turn around, go to those influencers, get more customers, and it turns into this like incredible flywheel of Of product seating and events?
Daphné Eastmond
Yeah, actually that could be a really great idea. Who what YouTuber do you do people listen to and just and send them products? Um yeah, that could be a br a really great way, but again, there's no guarantee that it'll actually convert.
Kurt Elster
So you mentioned authenticity. How do you keep your brand message authentic? Is it Or you you're not worried about it. You just know you're authentic because you're living this.
Daphné Eastmond
Uh no, I don't know if I'm or perceived authentic. Um, but I think for me is going back to my why, why I started my brand and why I'm doing all of this, I think that that's a good way to make sure that what we're putting out there is authentic. I think it's also about like learning to find my brand voice and identity. Um and just putting your blinders on. I think it's easy to get um influenced by what other people are doing or what I should be doing or how I could be doing things better, but realistically people resonate with your with your my content or your content because of what you're putting out and the vibe that you're giving and your brand identity. So Nice thing just going back to the why.
Kurt Elster
I like that advice. Well, if for me the why is enable entrepreneurship. It's always that it's been been what I've been interested in for over 20 years. And so just carrying that into this has maintained that authenticity because it's a genuine curiosity and interest. And then the audience shares it. It works, right? You know, the the best part about being authentic, it's a lot easier to just be yourself, right? Instead of trying to be a persona instead of trying to be someone else. And certainly like, you know, I do stick, right? You know, you can't not. Um, you gotta be be a little dynamic, but you you don't want it to sound fake or contrived. And so for you, what is that What's that process been like of of finding that that brand voice? I like and also I I like the blinders because I strict I don't listen to podcasts because I don't want to be influenced.
Daphné Eastmond
That's a really good idea. Yeah. Um I think I'm still working on it. I think it was always about like what I wish I had when I was navigating my hair, like what resources, what connections, what posts resonate. Um obviously I I'm not gonna lie, I do look at what other curly hair brands are doing. Um But yeah, I think it's mostly about like being that that brand that I wish I had when I was navigating my hair a few years ago.
Kurt Elster
What um what's next for Frizenco? You doing another round of product development, continuing keeping the things going as is. What's got you excited for 2025?
Daphné Eastmond
That's a really great question, I think. The main aspects that are coming in 2025, hopefully definitely another product, um, and education. Um, how can I leverage tools to facilitate education when it comes to my consumer? Um I think the future of beauty is inclusive, diverse, and technology driven. Um, I think we're seeing a lot of AI in different spheres, and I know AI is like maybe a trigger word for some people. Um, but I do think that it does have a place in beauty and in hair care. Um, so how can we leverage this?
Kurt Elster
How do you see it? Implemented. Yes, I see it.
Daphné Eastmond
It could be in different ways. I think there are quizzes that can help people guide based on their hair type what product worked best. I think it could be chatbots. I think it could be um facilitating decision making when it comes to choosing the right product for your specific hair type. Um those are are are ways I'm seeing it.
Kurt Elster
Do you use AI like ChatGPT today?
Daphné Eastmond
I do
Kurt Elster
How often?
Daphné Eastmond
Every day.
Kurt Elster
Yeah, me too. A hundred percent. And now I've gotten into like the custom GPTs where you make like a more tailored version, like a repeatable. um session with chat ept. That's quite helpful. I got like a whole board of directors, or they're all named ChPT. That's pretty useful.
Daphné Eastmond
It honestly, I don't know how we did it before. Chat.
Kurt Elster
It's just like I feel supercharged in my output and confidence, and I did not need more confidence. So thanks for that, ChatGPT. Um okay. Uh well actually yeah I was gonna ask one more thing. I was kind of curious. Have you considered selling in store in Um either in store, which like would be amazing to be in like a Sephora or Alta, but probably more like in local salons is what I would picture.
Daphné Eastmond
Yeah, I have considered. I think and this is kind it kind of feels like uh which was first the chic the chicken or the egg. Um I feel like so getting in stores. or even local stores is one thing. Getting people to the store to buy your product is a different thing. Um so I feel like I would want to work more on my online presence First before going into stores, um just to make sure that there's traffic to purchase the product
Kurt Elster
You know what I appreciate about that answer is you you really were able to say, hey, you know, I add that one thing. Here's the other demands on my time that I just added as well. And so I have not exhausted the existing easier opportunities here. Right. That's what I heard. Uh so I want to know then how when you're looking at all these opportunities ahead for you, because it you're in this this interesting space as a brand where it's like you could go several directions to grow it, how do you prioritize them?
Daphné Eastmond
That is a really good question. Um, because in the past I have been burnt by trying to do too many things at once. Um, I think, and this is the advice that an old prof gave me when I was in university, that is uh plan your work and work your plan. Um, and fixing three objectives, three key goals I want to reach, for example, in the next six months, and just working towards those three things. I think more than that as a solo founder. Um, so I'm the only one working on this. More than that becomes overextending yourself. It becomes dropping the ball on different things. It becomes Not putting all of your energy into certain things, so just focusing on those three and making sure we we meet those goals.
Kurt Elster
I I'm right there with you. I love that that rule of three. As soon as my to do list is more than three items, I'm like, all right, how many of this is we really get into But that applies to to any time frame of thing. And especially like the long the bigger the tasks get, the more complex, the longer they get, the more important that rule of three becomes. Oh, good advice. And I'm happy for the reminder. Okay. Final question. Well, second to last question. What's one piece of advice you would give someone who's listening and they are just starting their Shopify journey?
Daphné Eastmond
Oh okay, so the thing and I I believe we we touched on this. Um earlier in our conversation, but the faster you interact with your customer, the better. Um Just get in there and talk to them. I think that's the best way. You'll get either validation. You'll get feedback you'll get just data to better understand your target audience. I feel like when I launched my my brand, it was to the best of my abilities and just now I'm starting to really get those conversations going, get getting those a hundred um a hundred conversations. And I wish I had done that from the start, just to like really understand who I'm talking to.
Kurt Elster
Absolutely. The yeah, it reiterated what we discussed earlier, but uh a hundred percent I'm you know I'm happy to reiterate it. for whoever needs to hear it. Okay. Now my actual final question. Where can we go to learn more about you and Frizzco?
Daphné Eastmond
Uh so on Instagram we're at uh frizz. co. And like you mentioned our website, www. frizhair. co.
Kurt Elster
Frizhair. co. Check it out if you've got textured hair. Uh it sounds like your hair. Well, thank you. Daphne Eastman, this has been great. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Kurt. It was great chatting. Crowdfunding campaigns are great. You can add social proof and urgency to your product pre-orders. While reducing risk of failure. But with traditional crowdfunding platforms, you're paying high fees and giving away control all while your campaign is lost in a sea of similar offers. It can be frustrating. That's why we built Crowdfunder, the Shopify app that turns your Shopify. product pages into your own independent crowdfunding campaigns. We originally created Crowdfunder for our private clients and it was so successful we turned it into an app that anyone can use. Today, merchants using Crowdfunder have raised millions collectively. With Crowdfund, you'll enjoy real-time tracking, full campaign control. and direct customer engagement and it's part of the Built for Shopify program, so you know it's easy to use. So say goodbye to high fees and hello to successful store-based crowdfunding. Start your free trial and transform your Shopify store. Into a pre-order powerhouse today. Search Crowdfunder in the Shopify App Store to get started.