"Communicating with your customers is everything."
Colby Kane, owner and founder of Aviator, discusses how the 2008 recession shaped his business, how he's survived the current pandemic, and what he expects will happen in 2021.
Colby is a designer and art director who started out in the fast-paced world of NY Fashion as an art director at Macy’s. He moved to LA in order to build something different, find a balance between work and family, and give back to his community.
Kurt Elster: So, today on The Unofficial Shopify Podcast, I’m joined by Colby Kane, the owner and founder of Aviator. He’s gonna tell us how he survives crises, two major crises. The recession of 2008, the current pandemic, and we’re even going to drag his predictions for 2021 out of him. So, Mr. Colby Kane, you have done a lot. I can hear a little bit of background noise in your recording because you are in the coolest industrial L.A. fashion space. But tell me, let’s start at the top. What the heck is Aviator?
Colby Kane: So, Aviator is a travel lifestyle brand. Our tagline has always been style and function for the travel lifestyle. I’ve since-
Kurt Elster: You had a travel-focused brand in 2020, huh? Uh oh.
Colby Kane: Yeah. Unfortunately. But we are surviving.
Kurt Elster: Okay, and let’s go to the beginning. How did you get involved with this?
Colby Kane: So, I started manufacturing, or I started the brand Aviator actually a long time ago. It was 2005. And I actually started a brand and I trademarked Aviator, and the idea then was to create a lifestyle brand like Ralph Lauren, like Polo, and I called it Aviator because I was like, “Oh, I want to appeal to the jet setters of the world.” But really, it was kind of funny, because all we were making was t-shirts and selling them wholesale to some of the high end boutiques.
Kurt Elster: Oh, interesting.
Colby Kane: Yeah. At that time, though, there was a market in all the major cities. L.A., Chicago, New York, Miami, that… where a $60 t-shirt was more than acceptable. It was like sought after. So, we tried to make the ultimate t-shirt back then and that turned into a full collection over the years from 2005 through 2008. But the business was just making… It was basically a fashion brand and it was an American heritage aesthetic fashion brand, so it was very vintage inspired, and we did do jeans. We did hoodies and t-shirts. But it was all just run of the mill, basic kind of stuff. There was nothing… no function to it at all.
But I learned over those years that through hustling and selling to these stores that that model of designing a collection, going to a trade show in Las Vegas and New York, and selling your wares to all these stores around the country and around the world was kind of like a dying business. It just didn’t… It never really sat well with me. So, I was always trying to figure out and learn how to get out of that, but I was so deep in that I just kept doing it, and doing it, and doing it, even after the recession, 2008-2009, I still did it for a couple more years. Three more years. Where I wasn’t making much money, the brand stopped growing.
Because for the first four years, we were growing into all these new boutiques and stores and it was fine. Wasn’t making a lot of money at it, but I was enjoying what I was doing. Sort of, I say. But-
Kurt Elster: Were you financially independent? Like did it pay the bills?
Colby Kane: Yes, but it wasn’t easy. It was so stressful. And it was a full on grind. And it was just a lot of hustling. But it was paying the bills. And then from 2008 to 2012, that time period was like the recession had hit, stores stopped paying for their invoices. Usually when you sell… When you go to a trade show, imagine this. That whole business was set on you sell your clothing, you get a PO from a bunch of stores, you put all those POs together, you go into production for those products, and then you ship them in a couple months, and then I send those stores the invoice for what they ordered. Typically, it was net 30, which means they’ll pay you 30 days after they receive the goods, and that… I mean, that net 30 became unheard of. It ended up being net 60. Net 90. Net 120. Stores going… You’d have to hound them and send a hitman to go get your money.
It wasn’t fun. It was like it was brutal trying to get your money back, so that’s when the business really turned for me and it was really… It was sour. And then it became harder and harder to be financially independent. It was not easy. But it was that time in 2012 when things started changing and I heard of… I met a guy at a trade show, and he was talking about Kickstarter, and he launched his brand on Kickstarter, and now he was trying to go from Kickstarter to selling to stores, and I was kind of like, “Well, why is he trying to sell to stores? There’s no money in this.”
Kurt Elster: You… Yeah, the grass is always greener, I suppose.
Colby Kane: Yeah. And then, but I took what I learned from him, and I went back to L.A. and I watched his Kickstarter video, and then I watched… I just started researching all these projects on Kickstarter and I was like, “Wow.” So, in 2012, my mind was totally blown on what was going on.
Kurt Elster: Were there any that stood out to you where you were like, “Oh, man.” There’s one that made it click where you’re like, “If they could do it, I could do it.”
Colby Kane: I mean, there was a bunch. There was a bunch. I saw all these people making wallets, and there was all kinds of products. I ended up backing a bunch of things, like the Coolest Cooler. That was kind of famous.
Kurt Elster: The Coolest Cooler.
Colby Kane: You remember that one?
Kurt Elster: Yeah. And then the… It was like at the time it was a record setter. It was just like one after another record-setting Kickstarters back then. Like the Fidget Cube. I have one.
Colby Kane: I have one. Yeah. I got a Fidget Cube, and I did not have my Coolest Cooler. Never received it.
Kurt Elster: Right. They had production issues.
Colby Kane: Yes. But that’s the risk you take when you back a project, I suppose, so I just figured I could do this. So, then I had an idea. I canceled all my POs from the trade show in Vegas and I just decided that day I wasn’t going to sell to stores anymore and I just decided I was gonna pivot into the direct-to-consumer model. So, the idea was the to change my American heritage brand into a travel lifestyle brand, because I just didn’t see the value in making fashion products anymore. I saw a value in making functional products.
Kurt Elster: Aha. Okay, so here’s the… That’s where the change happens. It goes from like instead of cool, it’s functional, and it’s shifting more toward… Well, how would you describe it? Are these the products you sell now?
Colby Kane: Yeah. Yeah. And I would still say it’s cool.
Kurt Elster: No, I have several. I’ve got the full Aviator lineup and I was telling you in the pre-interview, I literally got rid of all my other pants. I have just three pairs of Aviator pants. That’s all I wear.
Colby Kane: Love that. Thank you. Yeah. No, you very quickly have become one of our better customers.
Kurt Elster: Thank you. Proud to be.
Colby Kane: Yeah. No, so yeah, so I pivoted out of fashion, and it was that time too, I realized other brands like Lululemon or something like that… It was actually Lululemon to be specific. I went in to get my wife some black yoga pants and I noticed when I walked in that store there was nothing on sale. And I was like, “Of course, because it’s functional, I guess. I guess I’m here getting my wife black yoga pants because of the function and she needs them.” So, yeah, I’ll pay full price.
So, I felt like a light went off where I was like, “Wow, so if I made my products that had function, I don’t have to discount them.”
Kurt Elster: Yeah. They’re not like… They’re not seasonal or trendy.
Colby Kane: Exactly.
Kurt Elster: It’s you’re taking out that… the expiration date that fashion apparel has.
Colby Kane: Exactly. And in my business, I’ve learned from a couple mentors what kills fashion brands, for instance, is having too much inventory and you can’t sell it because you go ahead, and you make all these products and then a year from now it’s out of fashion. Right?
Kurt Elster: Geez.
Colby Kane: Can you imagine sitting on all this inventory that’s out of fashion? What are you gonna do with it? You ship it off to those-
Kurt Elster: Yeah, what do you do with it?
Colby Kane: Yeah, there’s actually people here in L.A. that will come get it, and then I don’t know what they do with it. I think what they do with it is they send it to… You know like if the Chicago Cubs, they thought they were gonna win the World Series and they don’t, but they made all the-
Kurt Elster: But they had to print all the apparel anyway.
Colby Kane: Yeah, so they ship it off internationally or something and sell it there. I’m not really sure what happens to it, but people give you cents on the dollar for it.
Kurt Elster: It’s distressed inventory. Yeah, you’re not getting a lot for it.
Colby Kane: No. No. So, I just figured, well, if I was making products that were functional, and still stylish and cool, but they had the function, people would come and buy them for the function and because they look cool. So, if I was sitting on a bunch of inventory that it will eventually… I’ll sell through it.
Kurt Elster: So, all right, let’s go back. Timeline wise, you had a Shopify store in 2012. You’re starting to launch products on Kickstarter. And you canceled… You just went all-in on it. You had purchase orders from wholesale business. You said, “I’m not doing this anymore. I’m going direct to consumer.” What’s that first Kickstarter look like?
Colby Kane: Great question. So, the first Kickstarter and how I transitioned was I said, “I’m going to launch a single product on Kickstarter for this new travel lifestyle brand called Aviator.” And it was going to be the Red Eye Hoodie, which was basically one of the hoodies I already had made that was just more of a fashion hoodie, but then I added some little bells and whistles to it, to make it more functional. And I called it the Red Eye Hoodie because it had a big, oversized hood, that you could pull over your face, which was a sleeper hood, right? Turned into a mask. It also had these three-way cuffs. I call it three-way cuff. And it basically has the thumbhole that most performance apparel might have, but then it also has this fold over cuff, which I kind of stole that idea from… I remembered when we had our first son. You have kids, so you remember this, but a baby’s onesie had these cuffs on them so that they wouldn’t scratch themselves.
Kurt Elster: Yes. Babies claw themselves.
Colby Kane: Yes. So-
Kurt Elster: If you’ve never had an experience with a baby, you don’t realize that babies are just constantly clawing at their own faces.
Colby Kane: Yes. So, they made these onesies with these little cuffs that turned into mittens, so I figured I’m gonna put those on for adults. And that was a differentiator along with the hood, and then a little-
Kurt Elster: To stop you from clawing at your face.
Colby Kane: Yeah. When you’re going nuts when you’re traveling through the airport. And then I put it on Kickstarter. I did the video. Did everything on a shoestring budget. And I had an audience of friends and family and I’ve collected some emails from my Shopify store. And when I hit send, I hit launch on the Kickstarter, and then it was no more than 30 seconds, someone bought a hoodie or backed the project. And you know, I was assuming it was my mom, but it wasn’t. It was some flight attendant in Tampa who said that-
Kurt Elster: Ooh. Validation.
Colby Kane: Yeah. It was just a flight attendant, so no connection to me. That was the validation. I was like, “I thought my mom was gonna be the first backer.” But this woman was, and she wrote a comment right on the project page. She’s like, “I’ve been looking for something like this my whole career.” And I was like, “Oh, wow.” And then-
Kurt Elster: Yeah, that’s quite the endorsement.
Colby Kane: Yeah. So, it was a really unique experience to have that validation, and then it was funded within a few days, and then it went on to raise about $130,000 in the month. And then my-
Kurt Elster: What were you shooting for?
Colby Kane: The goal was $20,000. And then my other goal with doing Kickstarter was I knew I didn’t want to launch a brand on Kickstarter, but what I wanted to do is launch products for my brand. And I learned that by when I was starting a Kickstarter, I saw that there was people doing multiple projects, and that’s… I thought that was the best way to go, because I could then curate whatever products I launch on Kickstarter. If they get funded and people really like them, I can put them over to the Shopify store. If they didn’t get funded and people didn’t like them, then I knew that I’m not gonna go into production on a product like that.
So, I ended up doing I think eight or nine Kickstarters over a three year period, and we raised about $500,000 in sales, so it was pretty successful. And at the same time, I had the Shopify store running and then the idea was to turn all those Kickstarter backers over those years into Aviator customers.
Kurt Elster: When was your last Kickstarter?
Colby Kane: My last Kickstarter was probably four years ago.
Kurt Elster: Why’d you stop?
Colby Kane: Because, well, I stopped mostly because I want to just… As a Shopify merchant, I really want to drive all my traffic to my AviatorUSA.com store. I don’t really want to drive people to Kickstarter and then have to transition them over anymore.
Kurt Elster: What is that, when you say transition them over, like clearly Kickstarter helped grow that business. It helped build that business to the point where you were then independent of Kickstarter. What’s that transition look like? I’ve talked to a few people in the last several weeks that either have an active Kickstarter or about to start a Kickstarter. What would you tell them for like, “Okay, your Kickstarter is funded successfully.” Now, how do you get those people to your Shopify store? How do you get them to become Shopify customers?
Colby Kane: Well, the thing with Kickstarter is you are collecting all the customer data, right? So, I’m getting all these customers. I have their email. I have their shipping address. So, I can market to them. We can send them, like when I first launched on Kickstarter, or when I first wanted to introduce those Kickstarter backers to our website if they hadn’t already been there, we would send an update through Kickstarter. I’d send them a message or a project update that says, “Hey, we have been out of stock of these hoodies, but now we just took new inventory of the Red Eye Hoodie on AviatorUSA.com. You can make your purchase there.”
So, that was one way to transition people over. But you have all that data and then you’re able to just implement it into your Shopify store. I mean, that’s the value in it. Now, and I do think that if someone was starting a Kickstarter now, I would advise them to use it. Use Kickstarter as an extended arm of your Shopify store. They have to go hand in hand in a way, especially if you’re a new business.
Kurt Elster: How so?
Colby Kane: Well, I just think that like… Because the goal is, you know, Kickstarter is just a temporary platform for you. I don’t think anyone… An entrepreneur or a Shopify store owner, their goal shouldn’t just be to always be on Kickstarter. You want people to be on your website, right? So, if you’re gonna use… Kickstarter is just… It’s a marketing arm, right? You could use it, you’re getting Kickstarter eyeballs, you’re getting new people, people that are interested in startups, and so if they’re backing your project there, your goal should definitely be to transition them over.
Kurt Elster: Once I’ve got them transitioned to my site, because you said you haven’t done a Kickstarter in four years. How do I, in apparel, where I’m selling not… I’m no longer selling fashion. I am selling a durable good. How do I get or how do you get recurring customers? How do you keep Kurt Elster coming back and buying more?
Colby Kane: Well, I get Kurt Elster a pair of jeans that he loves. I get him-
Kurt Elster: Yeah. I cheated.
Colby Kane: Yeah. I get him to take a chance on a brand and then if we give him a good customer experience and we give him a product that he’s happy with, then we’re gonna market the hoodie to him, or the polo to him, or a t-shirt to him.
Kurt Elster: Or the same thing I already love in different colors.
Colby Kane: Exactly.
Kurt Elster: The camo jeans came out. I was like, “Oh, crap.” Well, now I need those.
Colby Kane: Exactly.
Kurt Elster: I need it.
Colby Kane: Yes. Yes. And that’s how we continue to market. We always have to develop new products, or new color ways, and new ideas. One of the other things… I mean, we make our products here in the States, so it’s easy for us to do a small run to test a product. So, like those Red Eye Hoodies, they were made down the street from our office. So, that we ended up going into a pretty big production, but if I wanted to try a new hoodie, or a new pair of jeans, we would just do a small run, which a small run of jeans could just be a few hundred pairs to hit the factory minimum and then just see how they sell. And if it sells, then we’ll go ramp things up.
Kurt Elster: So, about a year ago… I don’t know if you watch the news, but there’s a pandemic that caused a travel lockdown entirely. You have a travel-positioned brand. Take me back to last March. What did that look like?
Colby Kane: So, I could tell you exactly what it looked like. Like most Shopify store owners, you have the app on your phone. During the winter months, I spend most of my time in Mammoth, California. My kids are on the ski and snowboard teams and I’m an avid snowboarder, so we’re up in Mammoth a lot, and then I remember it was March 13th. We were in Mammoth. The lockdown came and I remember, “Uh oh, that’s not gonna be good for my business.”
And then our sales since launching Aviator have been that classic hockey stick going up, and it’s just been… I mean, I feel fortunate and lucky that we’ve just been hitting all the right chords and we haven’t had any hiccups. And then March 13th, our sales just plummeted. And I was looking on my app constantly from Mammoth, like, “What is going on?” Well, of course no one’s gonna buy travel jeans. No one’s going anywhere. No one’s gonna buy a travel hoodie. No one’s going anywhere.
And our sales just came to a halt. And it was grim.
Kurt Elster: What did it… I remember like the uncertainty and the anxiety and the panic. The thing that I remember most is waking up, having the moment where you’re coming out of sleep, and then like 30 seconds later you remember, “Oh shit. This again. We’re still in this pandemic and we still don’t know what’s gonna happen.” And that really was what was so horrifying about it. At least early on, in March.
Colby Kane: Yeah. And it-
Kurt Elster: How did you feel?
Colby Kane: Well, I felt like I just wasn’t sure what we were gonna do. I mean, our sales, when I say they came to a stop, it’s they dropped immediately. In one day, our sales went from going hockey stick up to down 80%. And it was like that for the rest of the month, where we were 80% off roughly on our sales, and I was up in Mammoth for those two weeks, just everybody was stressed out and everybody was wondering what was going to come of this. No one really knew anything. And I just remember doing a lot of soul searching up in Mammoth for two weeks. What am I gonna do?
I was doing some backcountry snowboarding with a friend and just shooting some ideas around. And then I ended up calling one of my factory owners, because I was like, “You know…” There was a time where over the last few years… I travel a lot. I go to Asia a lot. And I started thinking like… and people were talking about masks at this time, right? So, and I remember as a travel brand, I always thought maybe a mask would be an accessory to my brand, because if you go to Asia, they’ve been wearing masks for as long as I can-
Kurt Elster: Almost 20 years.
Colby Kane: Yeah. As long as I… My first trip to Asia, they were already wearing. People were already walking around cities and airports wearing them. So, I thought, “Well, this would be… Maybe it’s a good travel accessory.” And then there was all this thing about getting masks quickly in the United States for the front line workers, and for all these people in need, and then in L.A. there was you can go to work if you were an essential business, so that was a big thing. And so, I called Mateo, this guy that owns my denim factory, and I said, “Hey, what are you guys doing?” He goes, “Oh, it’s really bad. We’re not working. We’re closed. We’re on the lockdown like everybody else.”
And I said, “Well, what do you think about becoming an essential business and making masks?” And he was like, “Can you help me with that?” And I was like, “Yeah. We need to do this because it’d get you guys working and we’ll be serving a need.” So, it was basically we just… I drove back to L.A. and went right down to Mateo’s factory, which was amazing. I’ll never forget this. I got from Hollywood to Downtown L.A. in about 10 minutes because there was no one on the road, and that’s a very rare sight in L.A. To get anywhere in L.A. in 10 minutes.
But I went to the factory and we got it basically set up where the factory was recognized an essential business and then we just started pumping out masks. And we were donating them. And then there was a day on the website where I was like, “Well, how am I gonna pay Mateo for making these masks?” Because he’s got all these people coming in, they’re contractors. How we going to take care of these people making the masks? Because right now, they’re just making them for free.
But everyone, there was this whole idea, well, people need to make their income, and make a living, and I was like, “Well, maybe I could sell some masks on my website. I don’t know if my customers would even want them, but I’ll just take some of these masks we’re making in the factory.” I put them on the website. So, I just put a handful on the website. I say a handful is probably a thousand. And I send an email out to my mailing list and they were sold out in three minutes.
Kurt Elster: Whoa.
Colby Kane: Yeah, which that… I was like, “Wow, that was amazing.” So, what ended up… That ended up basically paying for all these employees to just get to the factory, start making masks, and pumping them out, and for every mask we’re making, we’re donating a mask, and getting large, bulk orders of masks to the hospitals, to grocery stores all around L.A. The police department. And that’s basically how it all started.
And then we started just selling more and more masks on the website. Started marketing the masks.
Kurt Elster: And from there, all right, so do you still sell the masks now?
Colby Kane: We do. We do. Not as often. And you know, you have to keep in mind too, it’s not like these masks… I think every brand… By the time, I don’t know, maybe middle, end of April, beginning of May, every local fashion brand in L.A. were making masks.
Kurt Elster: Yeah. Everybody stepped up and just starts producing masks continuously.
Colby Kane: Totally. It was the Wild West. It was like now all of a sudden my factory, everybody’s factory, there’s a thousand factories in Downtown L.A. They’re all making masks. And to get masks made became like it was a waiting game. You couldn’t even get… You couldn’t get time on the production line if you were late to the party.
But the truth is, all these brands rather make their regular clothes and products than making masks. There’s not a lot of margins in the masks, but you’re making enough to supply financial support for people, so it wasn’t… It’s not a loss there. You’re doing a good thing. But I’d much rather get back to selling jeans, hoodies, and t-shirts, and having the mask as an accessory, an add-on, or a gift with purchase.
Kurt Elster: Well, all right, so we got the masks, and the masks start selling, but still, not a lot of margin in it. Not everyone wants to sell it. Were you able to get back to selling your core products?
Colby Kane: Yeah. You know, there’s been… It’s weird. The uncertainty keeps changing, right? Like the vaccine came out, so there’s all this talk like… I mean, my wife made our travel plans for the summer thinking the world’s gonna open up. I kept telling her, “As long as it’s refundable.” So, who knows? But people… Basically, I pivoted my marketing efforts. And so, we were style and function for the travel lifestyle. Now it’s just style and function for today’s lifestyle. And the effort is more about being comfortable. There was that whole talk about looking good, feeling good during your Zoom calls and things like that for people when they were at stay at home.
So, like you know firsthand, our products are comfortable, and they look good, so we just started marketing them that way.
Kurt Elster: I agree with you. The site seems to be focused around that. However, the hero image on your homepage is two people with carryon bags and it says, “I only fly in Aviator jeans.” And the quote is attributed to Conde Nast Traveler.
Colby Kane: Yeah. We put that… We did change the hero image for a while, but we went back to our roots right there. I do think there’s gonna be a travel boom and I want to-
Kurt Elster: Me too.
Colby Kane: And I want to be at the forefront of that. Because it-
Kurt Elster: I think you’re betting correctly.
Colby Kane: I think so. You know too, I was thinking about your wife’s business, like she’s gonna-
Kurt Elster: It’s starting to pick back up.
Colby Kane: She’s gonna have a boom. She’s gonna have a boom like she’s never seen before I would imagine.
Kurt Elster: Well, based on… What’s interesting is like now all of a sudden in January, her organic Google traffic with zero… Her traffic is coming back up. And it’s now back into hundreds of visitors a day. And literally all of it’s organic traffic and it’s because she had this organic content marketing effort. Whereas like in the first two years of the business, it was like social, social, social, you had to really work to promote it, and now… Oh, finally. That organic SEO effort paid off.
But yes, I agree with you. My genuine hope and prediction for 2021 and beyond is that it’s the second coming of the Roaring ‘20s.
Colby Kane: Yeah. I’ve heard that analogy before. And I agree with it. Just hopefully the depression doesn’t follow.
Kurt Elster: Well, yes. Yeah. Yeah, I don’t want a repeat of the ‘30s.
Colby Kane: No. Roaring ‘20s sounds great. But so yeah, so on our hero image and on our website, we’re showing content and images and the language kind of speaks to both. But even that travel, that Conde Nast Traveler quote is, “I only fly in Aviator jeans,” does imply that, “Well, damn. These must be really comfortable.”
Kurt Elster: Yes. Well, it’s interesting, yeah, my wife mentions this. I often think about it. Traveling, even when I was a kid, you still dressed up a little bit for it. And now when you get on a plane, everybody’s wearing pajamas. Well, I don’t know now, but in 2019.
Colby Kane: Yes.
Kurt Elster: Everybody gets on in sweatpants kind of thing.
Colby Kane: Yeah. Yeah. There’s not… The golden era of traveling… I mean, yeah. You had people in suits, but smoking cigarettes on a plane, right?
Kurt Elster: There’s a lot more room, though, on a plane, too.
Colby Kane: Yeah. Yeah.
Kurt Elster: We’re not packed in there like sardines.
Colby Kane: No, so our aesthetic has always been try and look good, feel good, and be comfortable.
Kurt Elster: Do you have any other 2021 predictions?
Colby Kane: No, I just think that 2021 is going to be just… I’m hoping, I’m optimistic that it’s just going to be a big, fun year, because people are ready to go out, and celebrate, and party, and be with friends and family again, and so I don’t know. I just think that there should be record numbers of traveling, and hotel bookings, and all that stuff. I don’t know besides that. Do you?
Kurt Elster: It sounds like you’re optimistic. I am too.
Colby Kane: Yeah. I’m hoping it happens in 2021 and not 2022.
Kurt Elster: Yes. Yeah, that is the other thing, is like when does it kick off and I think things are very dependent on… It’s really vaccine rollout I think is what is our deciding factor here.
Colby Kane: Yeah. I remember, by the way, my birthday was March 19th. So, and I was in Mammoth, and we had a birthday party at my house with one other family, and I got toilet paper, Lysol, paper towel, because that was the-
Kurt Elster: Oh, the toilet paper shortage.
Colby Kane: Yeah, and I just, I said, I’m like, “Everyone just wait and see. Everyone’s gonna have a COVID birthday.” Right? Here we are nine, 10 months later.
Kurt Elster: See, my birthday’s in January, so I’m having my first COVID birthday now.
Colby Kane: Welcome to the club.
Kurt Elster: Yeah. Oh, lucky me. You’ve had a Shopify store since 2012. Let’s say you had to delete all but three apps from your Shopify store. Which are the three you’re keeping?
Colby Kane: Definitely Klaviyo. We had switched from Mailchimp to Klaviyo back… Probably your recommendation. I think the first time I heard of them was because they were a sponsor on your show or something. But we switched to them before the whole fallout between Mailchimp and Shopify happened, so I was glad we were kind of early to that party, because they’ve been a game changer for us.
The other one I’m keeping is Postscript, which has been tremendous for SMS, and I do think that that’s going to be… We’re noticing that that’s more with our younger customers, that it’s okay to text message them. You know, they’re-
Kurt Elster: That’s the mindset shift that people need to hear. It’s okay to text message them.
Colby Kane: Yes. Especially if you have something to offer and you’re giving value. And then the third one that I would probably keep is we just started it, but I’m really liking it so far, is Growave.
Kurt Elster: What’s that? I’m not familiar.
Colby Kane: Yeah. I actually learned about it. I asked a question on The Unofficial Shopify Facebook group, and about-
Kurt Elster: I hear that group is great.
Colby Kane: It’s great. You get tremendous value in there because you could ask a question and then other merchants are gonna give you great insight. So, I asked a question about what are people doing for loyalty programs and I got everything from Smile to Stamped, and someone mentioned Growave because they integrate well with Postscript and with Klaviyo, so I was like, “Hm.”
And now I’m learning they do so much more. It’s pretty deep. But they do need… Their interface is a little janky. And it needed a little tweaking before making it acceptable.
Kurt Elster: Needs a little polish?
Colby Kane: Yeah. But the good news is they’ve been super easy to work with and responsive, so if we say… We’ll send them a message like, “This needs to be replaced. This has to be fixed. The grammar is wrong in this.” And they’ll fix it right away. So, so far those are probably the three that are most important to us.
Kurt Elster: That’s a good lineup. I like it. And what’s interesting is they are all focused on customer communication. All three of them.
Colby Kane: Yeah. And communicating with your customers is kind of everything. Their pains, their wins, their… I mean, you have to listen to them.
Kurt Elster: I like that so much. I’m putting that as my pull quote in the summary. Communicating with your customers is everything.
Colby Kane: Oh, how about Shipageddon or whatever that…
Kurt Elster: Shipageddon. Did you… What happened?
Colby Kane: Oh.
Kurt Elster: And you’re in apparel, too. Did you get… So, then you also get hit with Returnsmageddon.
Colby Kane: We got… Yeah, we got hit so bad. Well, first of all with masks, when we were shipping masks out, that was a huge problem when the USPS really got backed up, because people needed their masks right away. And so, someone’s ordering a mask and we had… We learned later in hindsight that we had bags of… When I say bags, huge, like the USPS comes to our office twice a day to pick up orders. I should also tell you we do all of our fulfilling from our headquarters, and that’s another reason of like a touch point communication with our customers, like instead of using a 3PL, we just ship everything here, because that way we can do the handwritten note, we can process returns, and then we also offer some customization to people’s orders that it’s better if we just handle it here in house. And I can get into that later if you’d like.
Kurt Elster: What’s the customization?
Colby Kane: Well, so we only make our jeans in one length. So, some people, potential customers, would say, “Well, I’m a 34 waist but a 30 inseam. Why don’t you offer size 30? Levi’s offers a 30, a 32, and a 34 inseam. Why don’t you?” And well, Levi’s makes millions of jeans every month. We make thousands of jeans every month here and so we’re doing small batch productions and we can’t… We don’t have the means to make all those inseams and I also don’t want to carry that inventory. I’d rather have one length and then have that… You get those jeans custom hemmed. You can get them custom hemmed by a local tailor, or we’ll do that prior to shipping.
But there is a caveat. If you elect to have us custom hem your jeans, it does make them non-returnable.
Kurt Elster: Right. I actually remember reading this on the website and then I’m like, “You know what, the inseam is close enough. I’m good.”
Colby Kane: Well, because also, if you’re buying a premium jean, it’s better to have them hemmed anyway instead of buying completely off the shelf, 30, 32, 34 inseam, like we have customers that tell us they want a 30.5, you know? Because that’s what they know. And then if you’re a repeat customer, all repeat customers ask us to hem their jeans pretty much, because they’re confident and they got the right size. They know what he product is.
Kurt Elster: Yeah. If I was buying the first pair, I wouldn’t do it. On subsequent pairs, then I might, because I have the actual jeans. I can measure it and go, “All right. This is the size I’m looking for.”
Colby Kane: Yeah, so that process takes the 3PL out of the equation for us, because we have a tailor in our office that actually hems the jeans on the spot.
Kurt Elster: Oh, interesting.
Colby Kane: Yeah.
Kurt Elster: So, what’s the best piece of marketing, or what’s the best piece of business advice you’ve ever been given? So, like one anecdote, one quote that just rattles around in your head.
Colby Kane: Well, it was probably that one I mentioned earlier, that inventory is a brand killer. But-
Kurt Elster: Because yeah, someone told you that. You respected them. It clicked. And you went, “That’s what I have to get away from.”
Colby Kane: Yeah.
Kurt Elster: That’s interesting.
Colby Kane: Yeah. I have to get away from fashion products that lose value. I only want to make products that hold their value. So, it was all around that. That’s the best advice in my business, at least that I can think of on the spot.
Kurt Elster: Do you read any or have you read any business books?
Colby Kane: I have. I’ve read all Gary Vaynerchuk’s books. He’s just-
Kurt Elster: Gary Vee.
Colby Kane: Yeah. Gary Vee is super entertaining and smart. But you know, I’ve read Tim Ferris’s books, but it’s more of a lifestyle thing now.
Kurt Elster: Yeah. Any other… Is there any one book that comes to mind that you’re like, “Look, this should be on everybody’s bookshelf.”
Colby Kane: Well, it’s interesting, so you know what I did? I mean, in my business, it’s more business specific, but I read a lot of biographies on other clothing designers, like Ralph Lauren’s book, I think it’s called The Genuine Article, it’s a great read if you’re in the apparel business. John Varvatos has a great book as well, so does Joseph Abboud. There’s a bunch. I can rattle them all off, but there’s a bunch of fashion-related business books I think that are important to read.
But truth is, I don’t… I’m mostly listening to business podcasts more so. I’m driving a lot. I live in L.A. I go up to Mammoth every weekend. It’s a four-and-a-half hour drive, so I’m heavy on the podcasts.
Kurt Elster: All right, plug one. Give me one you like.
Colby Kane: Besides yours?
Kurt Elster: Of course. Mine’s obviously number one, naturally.
Colby Kane: Yeah. Let me go to the… I’ll go to my list right now, because… Okay, so the Social Media Marketing Podcast, right? Are you familiar with that one?
Kurt Elster: No. Googling it. I’ll put it on the list.
Colby Kane: Michael Stelzner.
Kurt Elster: No, this one’s entirely new to me.
Colby Kane: Oh, really? I thought it was a popular one.
Kurt Elster: Just because I don’t know what it is doesn’t mean it’s not popular. Let’s make that clear right now.
Colby Kane: Yeah. There’s also… Wait, what is this? Wait, hold on. Oh, In Conversation by Shopify Plus. That’s a new one.
Kurt Elster: That one’s good.
Colby Kane: Yeah. It’s really good. Another one is Perpetual Traffic.
Kurt Elster: I’ve not listened to, but it’s been recommended to me.
Colby Kane: Okay. Oh, and How I Built This.
Kurt Elster: Oh, of course.
Colby Kane: That’s one of my favorites.
Kurt Elster: Given what just happened in 2020 and our conversation, what are you most excited about right now?
Colby Kane: The world opening.
Kurt Elster: I think we all are.
Colby Kane: Yeah. Just the world opening and getting back to having fun and seeing friends and family. And just enjoying life back to how it was. What we’re used to.
Kurt Elster: I don’t know if it’s… I wonder what things we’ll keep, like will we shake hands again? Can I just wear a mask?
Colby Kane: I’m okay with the fist bump. I’ve accepted that, right?
Kurt Elster: I like the fist bump and the elbow bump.
Colby Kane: Yeah.
Kurt Elster: You know, I didn’t get a cold for a year. That’s a plus.
Colby Kane: That’s a plus. And I do think… I mean, yeah, I think that my guess is the vaccine will just become… You’ll get it with your flu shot every year, hopefully.
Kurt Elster: Yeah. That’s what I was thinking.
Colby Kane: Yeah, and then if you could just not have to worry about it. But yeah, and I do think that masks are here to stay, but they’ll just be an accessory.
Kurt Elster: I agree. Like the same thing we saw in Asia will occur here.
Colby Kane: Yes. It’s not a mandatory thing to wear a mask, but you might wear a mask if your comfort level going into a crowded space, just you feel like you need one to protect yourself.
Kurt Elster: If I am in that Orlando airport, and if you live in the area you know what that place is like, I’m wearing a mask for the rest of forever. There’s no escape.
Colby Kane: Yeah, that’s true.
Kurt Elster: Let’s see. Do you… Well, let’s say you’ve got this amazing, these pants I love, you’ve got this hoodie that my wife is obsessed with. I like mine. She loves it. Where can I go to get these fabulous items to prepare me for my new 2021 travel lifestyle?
Colby Kane: You can go to AviatorUSA.com.
Kurt Elster: Wonderful. Colby-
Colby Kane: Oh, I was just gonna say we just launched our loyalty program, which is a big kind of marketing effort that we’re doing for repeat customers to keep touching them and offering our customers the best value, and I’m hoping that it’s an add-on to our site that is… It’s effective. I’m not sure yet. We just launched it last week. So, we’ll see how that goes.
Kurt Elster: Yeah, we’ll see when the episode airs like two weeks from now, we’ll see. We’ll see if it’s still up there.
Colby Kane: Oh, man.
Kurt Elster: People are gonna go check.
Colby Kane: I hope so, because I’m getting rid of all… I got rid of all the discount codes that were… Because during 2020, I mean, because it was COVID, it was almost… You didn’t want to say, “Oh, here’s a COVID discount,” but all stores were just offering bigger discounts than they ever have, and we certainly did that. We never offered more than 20% off, but we were offering 25% off basically for the whole year until Black Friday, we did 30% off, which is also new territory for us. But we’re trying to get away from just offering those discounts, because I think it does to some level devalue the brand a little bit, and I’m trying to elevate the brand and keep it high, so that’s why we’re doing this new loyalty program.
Kurt Elster: I agree with your entire analysis there, like coupons were very much… They’re a tool. They can be a necessary evil in that like yeah, you can teach your customers to expect them and you devalue the brand, because they go, “Well, the retail price is not actually real.” You know, it’s like walking through Macy’s, because there’s a shortcut when Macy’s when I worked in a mall, and you very quickly discover stuff’s on sale more often than it’s not in those types of stores.
Colby Kane: Yeah.
Kurt Elster: It ends up devaluing the brand where I’m like, “Macy’s is kind of no different than like Target at this point.” And I have some fun items from Macy’s. No hate for Macy’s there, but call a spade a spade.
Colby Kane: I used to work at Macy’s.
Kurt Elster: Oh, really?
Colby Kane: Yeah. In advertising. It’s kind of how I got my start in this whole fashion apparel business, but I was an art director. Out of college, I needed, just like everyone, graduates college, I grew up in Long Island, Huntington, New York, and my dad worked in the city, and anyway, when I graduated college my parents were moving from their house, so I couldn’t waste any time. I had to go get a job right away, and I had an in at Macy’s in the advertising department, and I was a graphic design major, so I went in, took the meeting, and I got the job.
So, I started working in the city right away, so I didn’t have to… I was able to move into New York City as opposed to staying, living at home, and my parents moving to a new house. So, it was good, and I have fond memories working there. I learned a lot.
Kurt Elster: That’s good. Wow. I’m glad I brought up Macy’s.
Colby Kane: Yeah. I know. It’s kind of funny.
Kurt Elster: I’m sorry I besmirched Macy’s.
Colby Kane: Yeah, it’s an important… I guess it was my first real job.
Kurt Elster: What was the worst job you ever had?
Colby Kane: I think a locker room attendant at a country club.
Kurt Elster: That sounds pretty terrible.
Colby Kane: Yeah, just because you’re in the locker room and… Yeah. As a kid, I was a kid, and like… You know.
Kurt Elster: You’re just hanging out, passing out towels?
Colby Kane: Pretty much. But that was just… I mean, it was a summer job.
Kurt Elster: Let’s close out on what’s one thing you wish every Shopify store owner would do? People are listening. Inspire them. That’s a lot of pressure.
Colby Kane: I think every Shopify store merchant should just make great products and communicate a great customer experience for their customers, right? Just offer a great customer experience. Honestly, my truth is is take down Amazon. We could edit that out. I don’t need to-
Kurt Elster: No, I like where that went. Yeah.
Colby Kane: Well, because I’ve… You know, you read about this stuff, that Shopify is a real contender on a different level, because listen, I think that Shopify is the small business brands and stores that are like the good people in all these towns across America or the world, right? Like mom and pop shops that people are passionate about, and I do think that Amazon, which is a necessary evil, right? But they’re kind of squashing… They’ve squashed all the brick and mortar stores, and I just hope that the Shopify merchants are more resilient and can get their voices heard and make a difference in eCom.
Kurt Elster: You know, truly, I have faith that that is… Internally, that is like Shopify’s north star, is enabling small, independent businesses in a fight against this 800-pound gorilla that just seems to be eating the world.
Colby Kane: Yeah, so I just think that all Shopify merchants should be resilient and continue their passion towards their stores.
Kurt Elster: I love it. Let’s leave it there Colby, thank you. This has been phenomenal.
Colby Kane: Thank you so much, Kurt.