The founder who said no to everything and built a million-dollar company anyway
Kate Assaraf tried every plastic-free shampoo bar on the market. They sat in her shower like, and I'm quoting here, "tombstones." Failed products. Dead ends. So she decided to make her own. Without Instagram ads. Without Amazon. Without any of the things you're supposed to need to build a business. Today on our program, we follow Kate's journey from beauty industry veteran to the woman who said no to everything, and built a million-dollar company anyway.
In this episode, we explore how Kate sold 250,000 shampoo bars in 4 years while refusing Meta ads, Amazon listings, and influencer partnerships. When her contract manufacturer went under, she didn't find a new one—she built her own factory and hired the displaced workers. Now with 400+ retail partners and 7-figure revenue, Kate proves that sometimes the best growth strategy is saying no to growth hacks.
Kate Assaraf is the founder of DIP Haircare, a plastic-free beauty brand that's redefined sustainable haircare without compromising performance. With 20 years in the beauty industry, Kate launched DIP from her kitchen table in October 2021 after discovering that existing eco-friendly alternatives failed to deliver. Her shampoo and conditioner bars compete directly with luxury salon brands while lasting up to a year. By refusing traditional DTC tactics and focusing on local retail partnerships, she's built a 7-figure business that champions American manufacturing and community-first commerce.
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The Unofficial Shopify Podcast is hosted by Kurt Elster and explores the stories behind successful Shopify stores. Get actionable insights, practical strategies, and proven tactics from entrepreneurs who've built thriving ecommerce businesses.
Kurt Elster • 00:00.001
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Kate Assaraf • 02:06.560
Kate, thanks for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. I'm I'm actually so excited to be here. Um, I f I feel I feel um, you know, that that intro was a little bit out of body because sometimes I just don't hear really what it is, you know.
Kurt Elster • 02:20.760
It's yeah, I guess it it's different to have that that third party confirmation, right? 'Cause you've you've been building this brick by brick, as they say, for um I imagine this started over probably five years ago.
Kate Assaraf • 02:33.960
Yeah. Yeah.
Kurt Elster • 02:35.540
All right, tell me, dip hair care, what's it sell?
Kate Assaraf • 02:38.340
Well, we sell uh plastic free shampoo and conditioner bars and as well as a few other beauty products, but the bulk of our business or shampoo and conditioner bars that uh replace really high-end salon stuff. So um, you know, our shampoo bar is one of these these things that uh it it makes it so that you never have to choose between your workout and a good hair day. It's gentle enough to use every single day. So that solves a problem for a lot of people. And the conditioner bar is just secretly my middle finger to the beauty industry. It lasts a full year and it can replace uh something like Ourobe or Puroogy or any of these really expensive hair care products. So whether you care about plastic being plastic free or not, it's not part of the story. It just saves someone a lot of money and makes you look like you come out of the salon.
Kurt Elster • 03:26.600
And I you know, th you sent me these. I got last weekend, they arrived at my house. I loved the packaging and I'm a big fan of fancy soaps. This is my first shampoo bar. Um, but I I love my fancy handmade soap. That's like my my uh my treat to myself or the fancy soaps. And so I was thrilled, thrilled to get these and try them. Uh and you know, it's I don't know if you could tell, but you know, it really it performed just as well as shampoo. It works.
Kate Assaraf • 03:53.540
Yeah, you have beautiful hair. I was thank you. Yeah.
Kurt Elster • 03:56.820
I'm basically a peacock at this point. Uh but Why do this? When did this start? What was the what was the impetus?
Kate Assaraf • 04:04.879
Well, so f you know, ten years ago I read about the now it's eleven years ago. I had read about the horrors of plastic, not only just the accumulation. Everyone thinks about the accumulation of plastic, but also like what it does to your health. And not just human health, but also um animal health. So I had read that um I was reading this book called Boys Adrift and it was about I was pregnant with my first son and it was basically about like how to raise like a strong boy. My older brother gave it to me already had two sons. And um so I r was reading this and it was like, you know, talking about video games and talking about how like, you know, hunt like hunting and being in touch with nature isn't something anymore. And then there was a chapter on plastics, which was just like a kind of a blip in the book, but the author talked about how in the Potomac River um runoff from a plastic factory had changed the aquatic life, the hormonal health of the aquatic life so much that male fish started laying eggs. And to me that was like probably one of the most horrifying things I'd ever heard just because, you know, to to to be alive is to love nature and to think that we're doing stuff that is so detrimental not only to, you know, aquatic life, but just ourselves. And now you know, eleven years later, you see now it's mainstream to like be panicking about plastic. But for 10 years a da like 10 eleven years ago, like this was kind of the secret and it was being held away from consumers. So on my own journey, I tried to reduce plastic. Um, but you know, so many of the product offerings were just kind of left me disappointed and they were also more expensive. And so For myself, I kept investing in like plastic free shampoo and conditioner. And um it did the exact opposite of what I was trying to do, which was just created like it was like tombstones in my shower. I was like never using this again, never using that again. And I was like, I can solve it. I've been in the beauty industry for 20 years. Like, I can solve this. I can make something really great that I would actually want to use again. And um, and so that's that frustration is what brought me to to create did.
Kurt Elster • 06:07.660
So what was there a moment you've got you you're trying existing solutions? They have a painter problem. In your case, it's like, hey, I want to not be rubbing plastic microplastic infused, you know, materials on my head, and then just throwing these bottles out where they're gonna sit for the next century in a landfill. Totally. Um the uh say all right, there's gotta be alternatives. But then you try the alternatives and none of them none of them works. None of them is good enough, none of them does what you want And finally you have that moment where you go, why not me? Yeah. Those three words are the magic that kicks off many entrepreneurial journeys. Do you know what your your why not me moment was?
Kate Assaraf • 06:48.100
Yeah, I do. I so so once you kind of like learn about the plastic, the accumulation and the health thing, like you start to see plastic or you start to look at the world differently. It's like you can't un unlearn it's like when that when you're a kid and you learn that Santa Claus isn't real, like suddenly it's like a total your your whole, you know, mind shifts, right? Uh I hope there's no kids listening to this right now, but but you know when You know, I hope not too.
Kurt Elster • 07:15.060
They would be bored to death. You know if they are, they have fallen asleep already. It's just it is what it is. It's not a kid's show
Kate Assaraf • 07:21.860
Um, but no, I it was a bigger thing. It's bigger than shampoo and conditioner because I was like, how do I get people to care about this bigger plastic issue? You know, how do you get people to get excited or be aware without kind of preaching them to death Like how do you do that? And so I saw this opportunity. I was like, okay, I I think that hair is like the most emotional thing. um, in my regimen, in my beauty regimen. So, you know, you talk to anyone who loses their hair, they it it's it's a horrible thing. You talk to anyone who's gotten like a bad haircut
Kurt Elster • 07:56.940
It like, you know, it's Oh, you should beat my my teenagers after they have gone to the barber. It's like their life has ended. Yeah. Like you know it grows back, right? Totally.
Kate Assaraf • 08:06.520
Bad dye job. Bad anything. Like it it it's it's so hair is so emotional. Like you can have a you can have a great hair day and like take on the world. And so I thought, well, maybe this is like the nicest way to soft serve this plastic issue to people and get them really excited and care about it. But you know, at the on the other side, I'm fighting this like other kind of explosion of plastic free brands that were kind of, I think, a little bit predatory and a little bit dishonest. I think there's a lot of cash grab plastic free brands that capitalized in 2020 uh of this like you know how everyone was like trying to be more eco-friendly and they were talking about like the dolphins and the Venice canals and all these things during the pandemic and And so you saw this explosion of classic free brands that really, really, you know, took advantage of people. I think they cost more and screenwashing. Yeah, they caught they cost more and they left people like super angry. You know, and and now we're a few years later and like people want to do better for the planet. I think if you stop a hundred people on the street, a hundred percent of them are gonna be like, yeah, I want the world to be great for my kids. Um, but you're like, oh, are you willing to make the changes? And they're like, nah, I tried the plastic free deodorant. I hate it. I tried the plastic free, I hate like I'm not I'm not willing to like get rid of those kind of creature comforts for for the planet. And that's rational, to be honest. It's sad but rational and I and I don't fault anyone for that. So I really, really wanted to solve something and make it so good that I didn't have to advertise.
Kurt Elster • 09:37.880
That's it's a real like we know we know what you aren't doing with your advertising. Yeah. What are you doing? How did this happen? You hit seven figures and 14 months. Yeah. Right?
Kate Assaraf • 09:50.980
Yeah. It was fast.
Kurt Elster • 09:52.180
That's quite unusual. It's extraordinary with especially when you go, oh, zero influencers, zero paid ads, no Amazon. How?
Kate Assaraf • 09:59.660
Like what's left? What's the channel that worked? So I know for for me, I know that plastic Plastic-free beauty is just not really mainstream yet, and a lot of people don't care about. But the people that do care about it are walking into zero waste stores. and refill stores. If if anyone doesn't know what those are, it's an emerging channel and it's and it's, you know, you bring in like your empty laundry jug and you just fill it with more laundry detergent. You don't have to keep buying the jug, the plastic jug over and over again. They also a lot of them have food, so you can go and, you know, instead of um buying pasta at the store, you can go refill your pasta, your mango cheeks, your coffee, your tea, your spices, like literally So many things. So there's these refill stores all over the place and that's where people were already buying shampoo bars and that's where they were already annoyed with them. You know? So that's I I decided, you know, in the very beginning I Call I did like the very while everyone else was going digital. I went analog. I called store after store and I was like, if they're not the best bars you've ever tried, then don't worry about it, but I'll just send them to you for free. And sometimes I mean, many times I had people call me from their towel after the first shower because, you know That's good, huh? Yeah, I I think so, they thought so. And some stores started with, you know, selling a few hundred dollars. of dip a month like they got took a an um you know an initial order of a few hundred dollars and now some of them are selling three to six thousand dollars a month in stores
Kurt Elster • 11:34.540
So So how many how many brick and mortar stores do you have?
Kate Assaraf • 11:37.980
There's probably around three fifty because they're all some are, you know, obviously with Amazon it's hard to compete, so s a lot of them close. And then a few open up. So it kind of dances around bet between three um and four hundred all the time. But some of the, you know, it's it's one of those reasons like I I I kind of I kind of see what's happening here is that people don't trust ads anymore. And so they'll trust someone who has an eco-friendly store that has tried every version of a shampoo bar and every version of conditioner bar. and decides to stock that brand, you know? So it's it's it's very different than the influencer world where someone tries one version of something and just shouts it out to the world. But like these store owners have tried, you know, some of them hundreds of brands, some of them, you know, twenty brands. You know you don't need they were like me. They were like so they're like, okay, like I guess I'll sell I'll sell one of these, I'll call them tombstones, previous brands. Um, and then when you find something that really works and really delivers on its promises, like you want to tell all your customers about it. So I used that network of zero waste stores where I knew my type of customer was already walking in and already cared. And I created a partnership with stores like that in almost every state.
Kurt Elster • 12:53.620
The so we've heard about a common strategy people use on the show, especially with a product like yours where you know I'm not selling an iPhone. It has a a much more reasonable cost of goods sold. Is product seeding. Product seeding strategy. And you just go find influencers. Hey, love what you're doing. Can I send you this product? No strings attached. And then you follow up. You know, oh, you liked it? Okay. You know. Would would you want an affiliate code, et cetera? And so you get the content that way, you get it out in the world, you develop the word of mouth that way. And it works if the product is good. And you put in the effort. Here you've taken that concept, but then applied it to uh this a wholesale brick and mortar
Kate Assaraf • 13:39.900
Yeah. Well it it's also bigger than shampoo and conditioner bars, as I said, like I want people to make the plastic free swaps. So I want I use dip to to kind of get someone into one of these plastic free stores, these refilleries. And then when you're in there, you're kind of like soft-served all the other swaps that have already been vetted. And so for me, that's like the bigger picture is like I want someone to be plastic free. I also want them to see that they never have to buy another Ziploc again. They never have to buy paper towels again, unless, like me, I make bacon. So I need Paper towels specifically for bacon. There's no substitute for that. That thing works. But like I now I haven't bought paper towels. It's gotta be four years. But like that's crazy for for a fan I have two kids and a husband. They make a lot of spills. So like there's these they all these swaps Um it was the the whole mission was bigger. And and it's actually a really fun way to run a business because okay, I'm I have a a small company, but now I I have like a team everywhere. They're all over the States.
Kurt Elster • 14:44.300
That is it's a fun way to think about it, isn't it? The and it's because they you believed in the product They believed in the product. It's rare to find the products that like that sell themselves, you know. Yeah. When you have the I think the catch is you have to have the right audience, the right person. Totally. And, you know, good product.
Kate Assaraf • 15:02.000
There's no use. There's no use selling your product to people that don't want it.
Kurt Elster • 15:06.240
Yeah. Yes. And that's like that that's the frustration with uh meta ads, right? It's interruption marketing and it it's tough.
Kate Assaraf • 15:14.120
Meta ads the the criminal thing about meta ads is Once you start, they start sending like your ads to every single person who engages with your competition. Like then you have to pay more to fight your competition. Like where where's the win for the brand on there? You can only win on discount. No, it's not you can only win, but It's it's hard to win without discounts and like really like undercutting yourself and making like I I know so many brand owners that play that game and when and now you can like reverse engineer someone else's ads with AI, but when a competitor looks at our ads library, there's nothing there. And I think that's really funny. Like they can't figure out how to how how to compete because they can't figure out quite it's not that they can't figure it out, but like the messaging isn't exposed everywhere.
Kurt Elster • 16:08.540
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Kate Assaraf • 16:59.800
Yeah, maybe. I I it's not it's I'm not really against advertising. I'm against exposure of exposed because I have like over 200 competitors. And so just in the bar brand like bar shampoo and conditioner space. So I'm not gonna invite them over to scrape my ads. And my strategy, which is basically what everyone who's di like running ads is doing right now. They're just they're literally, I mean, I I there it it's You're basically naked as a brand all the time and everyone's just coming in with paparazzi cameras and and taking pictures of you.
Kurt Elster • 17:31.419
Like I I don't So it really takes it to a disturbing disturbing place.
Kate Assaraf • 17:34.700
I guess I don't know like I don't know how you protect your brand if you're running meta ads. They've made it so hard to protect yourself.
Kurt Elster • 17:46.460
What about Amazon? Because that one to me feels like, you know, now that you have this successful brand and other channels, if you were to plug Amazon in with just like a hero product. Would that work? I would imagine that would work as an acquisition channel, or is it the is it the same fear that you we're gonna have Yeah, same problem is by putting the listing out there, if it's successful, it will attract others.
Kate Assaraf • 18:10.580
It would work for me. I would make tons of money if I put my stuff on Amazon. But what about all these stores that I Why do we hate money? Well well, I don't hate money, but I do hate the idea of making it so easy for people to compete with the stores. um that are really trying to do the right thing. Like I think opening a refill store is probably one of the most rock and roll things you can do in this like age of hyper consumerism. And the idea that if I put my products on Amazon, the, you know, there's one small store that sells over $75,000 worth of dip. a year. And, you know, like w what's gonna happen to her sales? What's gonna happen to her, you know, everything. Like I j uh the idea of of doing that to the stores that help build the brand. Like, you know, it it seems a little greedy to build your brand on the backs of all these small stores and then turn around and be like, you know what? I'll just 10x my sales on Amazon and like hopefully you guys do okay. Um I I I don't know whether I can do that. And I and again, like I always kind of ground myself in that mission that I want someone to go and buy a shampoo and conditioner bar and then see other things like peppered around that makes their life easier that has been vetted because in this like digital slop of of marketing right now. Um can churn out six hundred um AI creator fake UGC ads in, you know, fifteen, thirty minutes. Like what's left for people to protect themselves against ab against shitty products.
Kurt Elster • 19:45.780
I I And I you know I I think to your point too, if you were to sell on Amazon, it sounds like that It would be s we assume it would be successful, but it would also cannibalize those brick and mortar sales.
Kate Assaraf • 19:58.980
Yeah, and I love the brick and mortar stores. Like I love working with them. I love You know, I know I know a lot of these people personally now because as a brand, what I do is I I create these, you know, retreats where we take small store owners that would have never met in real life, but all kind of know each other digitally because they're all uh kind of on the same page and same mission. I have taken them, I I did a trip to Morocco for two weeks with them. I like I reinvest in the stores and I took them to the Dominican Republic, our top ten stores, and we had like fun and surfed and like did all this stuff and then we just did this year we did the cat skills. Um, and so I had and we I set up like a fake summer camp and everyone can it was like so ridiculous and so fun. And so You know, beyond like dollars are really nice, but the community is way stronger. And when you have so many competitors like I do who are dying to stop running m meta ads and trying to like for they they can't They can't well, I'm sure they can infiltrate, right? But but the the mission and the brand become so much stronger when you reinvest in the stores or you know, say if you don't have stores, say reinvest in your top customers. Like there's there's a lot of different ways to do it.
Kurt Elster • 21:14.280
So you've got this very like this local first distribution model. And you also have a Shopify store. It looks good.
Kate Assaraf • 21:22.240
Thanks.
Kurt Elster • 21:23.120
How do you how do you help get those things to play together nicely?
Kate Assaraf • 21:28.060
Yeah, so so it's actually really the the secret sauce is not undercutting the stores with sales. And that's So if someone say for example, if someone doesn't live near a store, um, they I the shipping threshold is is five bucks. But once they get their products, it says like in there, like, hey, if you ha have a store near you. that you think would be a great f fit for dip, like bring this card in there, we'll give you a gift card if that store put puts in an order. So it can be, you know, you know, you can source it locally. So and then also whenever a box goes out, I think you saw in your box there was a sticker that said like, you know, check check out the store locator. Like I'm always trying to marry those two communities. And it works. You know, it's nice. Like it's nice to know that a brand for once is trying to reinvest where you live instead of siphoning all of the money and all the salaries from everyone where you live and bringing it all like in a spaceship up to Amazon. Yep. And because you know, Amazon just laid off 30,000 people or that was like the rumor number. Like this is how you protect your community from that. You reinvest where you live. Um, it's it's brands are giving all of the power to Amazon and forgetting that the real power is is kind of in these i is kind of differentiating where you put your your products to be sold.
Kurt Elster • 22:52.620
And on your on your site, dip allready dot com, you have a store locator.
Kate Assaraf • 22:57.180
Yeah.
Kurt Elster • 22:57.500
Uh and there's a note under it. It says small stores are closing at an alarming rate Check with your nearest store first. They might have just what you need. If they don't, let us know the store's name and we'll send you a free shipping code as a thank you for trying to shop locally. That's So brilliant and stays on brand. Like the messaging is is really clear with what you're trying to do here.
Kate Assaraf • 23:17.100
And it double it double helps us because if a store doesn't have inventory, that's how we know. Like someone will go in there and be like, oh, I didn't have what I needed. And then I can say the store, hey You gotta restock. Like people are this person in your town like wants to buy it here, and they probably are part of a network of friends that would also buy it. And so that's, I mean, it's it's really it's really fun. But on the Shopify site, we try and we try and make it so that people are totally aware of the mission, but they don't feel bad if they don't want to shop in store.
Kurt Elster • 23:48.500
Yeah, the way it I have never seen I this is my first experience with a business that is an online store, Shopify store that's structured in this way. And I really like it. Thanks. It's very clever. It's very positive. Um, and then, you know, looking at your your product detail pages on your store. There's a lot I like about it. Um it looks you've got uh video UGC here. If I had to guess off my top of my head, this it's uh most app.
Kate Assaraf • 24:15.760
Yeah yeah.
Kurt Elster • 24:16.480
Okay, I got it right.
Kate Assaraf • 24:17.440
Love the most app. So great Yeah, no it's that's a nice app.
Kurt Elster • 24:20.320
We've used that on on several client stores. I have no relationship to them. Um Just it's it's a good app. Um, and then in your reviews, your product reviews, which like the the shampoo bar I use today, four point nine rating, two hundred and forty-one reviews, and then there's the little AI magic button and it says see review summary. I've never seen this before and it looks like this is I think you're using Yachtpo for reviews, right?
Kate Assaraf • 24:47.660
Because the I really wanted it to just have uh everything that a customer would need to feel safe purchasing from our store.
Kurt Elster • 24:55.260
It has the yeah, this like drawer you click C review summary and a little drawer pops out. It says customers say. But it it's really clever. It's fun, right? A substantial number of customers remarked that their hair feels amazing. Like you're not beat that.
Kate Assaraf • 25:09.600
Like there's no there's no one in there that's incentivized to write anything about us, which is so fun. Like it that that's been like a slow build trying to build like the most authentic kind of version of our store we could do. But it is really, really fun to know and and have like blast that out to our customers, like these are all real people buying us.
Kurt Elster • 25:28.720
I like this. You know, that my only if I my only criticism is I I'm allergic to all these sticky widget and there's like a reviews widget on here and there's a rewards widget.
Kate Assaraf • 25:36.960
Oh I know. Yeah. But people are always kind of minimizes our customer service 'cause I always another thing is like we have human customer service, so no one's in like an AI hell loop. We should buy our stuff. Like I have an a dedicated customer service person who's amazing. Um and so I I I it's hard for people to like find the rewards and all that stuff. So I made it sticky, but I don't I don't love it either. I agree with you.
Kurt Elster • 26:02.480
The and then my my pro tip, and I'm bringing this up as a educational point, because I see this in stores of all sizes, you forgot to style the checkout. You can put your logo in there. Oh yeah. Set the typography.
Kate Assaraf • 26:14.000
Yeah. You want to do it for me?
Kurt Elster • 26:15.380
How do how do I do that? It would take me take me all of like 30 seconds. I could knock that out for you. Oh yeah. After the call, I'll show you. The but yeah, I've seen like it's just something people forget. Every store does it. So I love that. Hey, what's your Alright, so a bar of soap is uh twenty-four bucks, right? Or yeah. And what's our free shipping threshold? Fifty bucks. 50 bucks. And so is this like 50 was just a round number we like. Is it based on AOV or two bars is 48? And then so may as well pricing. I'm gonna buy a third because I don't want to pay for shipping.
Kate Assaraf • 26:47.600
Right. Yeah. So so most people buy a shampoo and conditioner and that ends up being fifty-six unless you find this double dip, which is like ten dollars off. So I it used to be seventy-five and eight fifty for shipping. Like it was high. And that was to redirect people on purpose to stores. But when so many stores started closing, I just softened it to 50 and five. Um, because you know, like it's gotta be frustrating on the consumers. I always try and put myself in the customer's shoes like it's it's very, very frustrating to like see an eight fifty dollar uh uh uh threshold and there's no stores near you. You know what I mean? So so and to go go 75 on a first purchase. And people were paying it, but I I it just felt icky. So I just reduced it. And I liked 50 as a number. Um, a lot of my competitors have reduced theirs to 30 and I've debated it, but it I mean, the shipping materials are so expensive.
Kurt Elster • 27:42.260
And yeah, well, and so is shipping. Yeah, shipping on. Depending on where it's going.
Kate Assaraf • 27:46.260
Yeah. Yeah. Like we have a lot of customers in Hawaii. Like if the if their stuff doesn't show up and we have to reship it, it's like, uh, because Hawaii shipping is so expensive. Um, but you know, it's okay.
Kurt Elster • 27:59.659
For a brand like yours, what is a Black Friday sale look like?
Kate Assaraf • 28:03.740
Oh man, so we never I don't say never, but we don't discount on Black Friday because cruelly they put small business Saturday between Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Like How is a store supposed to sell anything if everything online is 40% off like 30%? So I mean, so what we do is we have a kind of a higher threshold for an awesome gift with purchase. And so um I love free gift with purchase. It's so fun. Yeah.
Kurt Elster • 28:32.899
Favorite promo. I got we just launched an app for it. It's promo party pro. Oh, really? It's because we run like I bet I talk about free gift with purchase. I'd We'd set them up all the time and finally said, you know what, we're just we're gonna spend this year building our own, you know, the way I think it should work. So we did it. It's live or Uh November just went live.
Kate Assaraf • 28:52.440
Oh man, I'll check it out. So this year our Black Friday is if you spend two hundred fifty dollars in the store. And we'll have bundles that are special for holiday that make it easier for you to get there. Smart. We we will send you a branded Eno double nest hammock. And with the straps, which is a $104 value. So if you spend $250, we'll give you the $100 plus gift. And that's
Kurt Elster • 29:18.260
That's a compelling offer. Have you run this like it in years this is year four for you? Yeah. Have you done this in the past?
Kate Assaraf • 29:24.100
Yeah. So one year we did the leaf razor and the stand, and that was like uh a hundred plus dollar. um order is what like uh value of the gift. Um and then another year we didn't like a a skincare like a skincare brand that was also pricey. So we we do it as a as a thank you to our customers instead because remember like our bars last so long. So a shampoo bar can last someone like four to eight months and a conditioner bar will last some most people around a year. So like having people buy tons of it isn't really great. We'll never see them again. Um, they'll be stacked for for years. But like making it so that if they want to buy it for for other people as gifts and like and then the Enohammock is really exciting because I've ha personally had my own Since I got one for my honeymoon, I did this road trip around the country. And so that was twelve years ago. So I've had mine for twelve years. And I love it so much. I have the same one. And I was like, I wrote to Ina, I was like, this is one of my favorite things I've ever purchased for myself. Like, can I get them branded for my company and just gift them to her? basically it we call it our best customers. And so that's that's what we're doing. We just there's no tricks or anything. Just spend 250 bucks and we'll give you our this awesome gift.
Kurt Elster • 30:40.540
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Kate Assaraf • 31:53.500
I it it's an insult to the people who buy things from you. It's an insult. Don't treat your customers like that. Like they're the only reason you exist. Like what people forget that.
Kurt Elster • 32:05.060
When I get those, it's like okay, I I'm just gonna go ahead and see if I can remove the free gift from my cart because it's just it's like I don't wanna have to be the one it's like my house is just a stop on its way to the landfill. Yeah, yeah, like G G thanks.
Kate Assaraf • 32:18.380
another cup or a dish towel, like I don't want any of those things.
Kurt Elster • 32:21.980
Like oh a pen light. Another pen light.
Kate Assaraf • 32:25.760
Yeah, yeah. I mean so and you know, in sustainability it's it's gonna get a little squirrely because the Enohammock is not plastic free, right? Like it's a nylon. And sometimes we get customers who are like, hey, I thought you were plastic free. And it's like, okay, but it's like, this is not a single-use thing. This is something I've had for years and I love it. And I let it get you outside. Just go outside.
Kurt Elster • 32:49.460
Yeah. It's like Yeah, also in in some cases, you know, the whole point of plastic is it's very durable. Right. And so there's some situations where it's like, that's actually if it's buy it for life. I may want to use plastic.
Kate Assaraf • 33:00.039
Totally. I don't want to go to any hospital that doesn't have plastic. Like, it's important. It's important that we're going to be able to do it.
Kurt Elster • 33:07.020
Yeah, we're not saying plastic is evil. We're just saying you've got to be you know, think about its use a little bit.
Kate Assaraf • 33:11.980
Totally. I think everyone who finger waggles just ha has to put that hand back in their pocket sometimes.
Kurt Elster • 33:18.019
Yeah. Yeah, it's you're not gonna get anywhere with getting people to adopt sustainability if you know you're like the no fun police.
Kate Assaraf • 33:24.820
Oh my god. It's an it's really, really hard. You know, so you I'm sure you got the a postcard like the garbage fail kids. Yeah.
Kurt Elster • 33:33.020
Oh, that was fun. Yeah. You know, being I'm a millennial, so I remember the garbage pail kids from when I was a kid.
Kate Assaraf • 33:38.860
But you'll be surprised. So so I'm millennial too. And a lot of people appreciate that branding, but a lot of like the very strict, eco-friendly people write super nasty emails to us about they don't want extra cardboard in their packaging. And it's like, okay. But w a lot of people do. A lot of people want the extra directions. A lot of people love opening, having the surprise and delight of opening something that you paid shipping for. Like have some night like there's I I love opening something that has been packed with care. And that's something That's something about the the doesn't matter how small your order is, it is packed by someone on our team because we're mostly vertical as a company. Um I have my own manufacturer now and my own team. and we ship from our own warehouse. And so I'm able to control that experience for people. And I want people to have this this like when you open it, like the tissue paper is folded such that the messaging is right where it needs to be. You know, it's it's One of the most fun parts of having company a company and selling to people directly is making it fun for them to open.
Kurt Elster • 34:43.540
The yeah, no, I really it's been a while since I've had they call it an unboxing experience. It's been a while since I've had like a a really good one. Um you know I think it It fell out of favor or I'm buying the wrong stuff, you know. But like the Amazon, you're not getting an there's zero unboxing experience. Oh no, you're just happy your your stuff arrived. Yeah. Yours was was was a delight. It was great. I love the garbage pail. And like I wasn't expecting it too. I was like, oh, what is this? It was really, you know, quite this adventure to open up these shampoo bars. Um, but okay. The let's do some quick questions. As you've been scaling over the last four years, best uh best hire for delegation. What it what have you gotten off your plate that you're like, I should have done that sooner?
Kate Assaraf • 35:27.200
Oh man, so I actually, um, one of my employees is a used to be a refill store owner and a really successful one. And she had to move away from where her store was like geographically located. And I was like, I'll take you. You're you're exactly, you know, everything inside and out about The brand she also used to sell around six thousand dollars worth of dip a month in her store. So she knew it really well. She knew how to move it. And now she's unlike she's the person in charge of retailer outreach. And she can speak both sides of the language. She can speak to exactly what store owners want to hear, and she can speak exactly to all the sustainability stuff. So she is incredible. Um and then I also you know I mentioned I I invested in my very own warehouse and my own factory to make it um to make my company vertical. And though there's four people in that building and a That is the other big investment that I made that has really, really paid off.
Kurt Elster • 36:26.080
The another interesting thing about this website on your navigation, it's like shop about wholesale store locator. Under about, most folks would have, you know, about FAQ contact. Three things max. Maybe team four. There's at least 20 links inside uh you're about and like FAQ is its own category of seven things. So I I love the amount of you know really storytelling communication helpful advice that's given here. But there is one I could ask you 10 questions about these pages. There is one I have to bring up. Advice we ignored. Oh yeah. Tell me about the advice we ignored page.
Kate Assaraf • 37:08.320
So when you start any business, uh people really, really love to give you tons of advice. And I would just jot it down like one by one. And be like, uh the one of them's about digital marketing, one of them's about, you know, um, fragrance. When there's um there's a lot of different things on there. I I just wrote down the things that made the brand counterculture. And, you know, it takes someone to be like people are really nervous about buying especially shampoo and conditioner bars in the first place. And then at our price point, because we're kind of like more expensive than most of the other brands out there. So wanted someone to be able to like do a deep dive and dig within our own site and kind of laugh their way through how we got to where we are and how they even got to the site. And so that's one of those is just because we're a little bit we're a little bit renegade in counterculture in general as a brand. And I think the advice we igor ignored is fun for someone to read who's frustrated with the state of marketing right now.
Kurt Elster • 38:04.720
The I enjoyed skipping through it. It was a lot of fun. Um, and there's some good advice in there. Like you give, you know, you explain your uh your thinking as to why this is advice you should ignore. I what are the downsides to a brand like this? Maybe limiting yourself on revenue opportunities, but is it Counterintuit are you counterintuitively successful by having these limitations, by having you know, this ethics first brand and this narrow focus and understanding of the audience? Like Do you think this has scaled better, faster, more successfully, no ads, etcetera, than if this were a more tr a traditional beauty brand that in theory has more opportunity, but I also think would would be way harder to scale than this.
Kate Assaraf • 38:50.860
Yes. So a a lot of our competitors in this space have already shuttered. Like they've done all the traditional stuff and they've already They've already shuddered. Like it's it's hard to watch because I want sustainable sustainability with competitors or not to grow. But I think one of our biggest or one of the the biggest pieces to our success is saying no to a lot of things. And a lot of those things are secretly very costly. Like I think being on Amazon is so much more costly. So the revenue might be up. But the cost to get that revenue, like it doesn't seem like it it's worth it. Right now I can like enjoy my life and spend time with my children and pay my employees, but the idea of having to throw money into Amazon to work ten times as hard to get ten times the revenue in sales, but not as much and really have like a small profit margin is just not it for me.
Kurt Elster • 39:46.500
I I totally get that. And clearly what you've done has worked out well. So no No pushback there.
Kate Assaraf • 39:54.980
Part of it is is having fun as an entrepreneur, right? Like it's it's not just about the money. It's like having the fun, having the community and the engagement and the and you know, sometimes you go to uh an Instagram page that has like 350,000 followers and has like three likes because there's no there's no like heart or there's nothing there anymore. You're just like serving pictures. You know? Um whereas like we because our community is so tight, even though we only have I think like 12 or 13,000 followers on Instagram, like It's like a party on there. When we post people engage and they're excited. And I because there's not so many, like sometimes you get like, you know, 50 comments or a hundred 200 comments, like I could go in and and have fun like responding to them instead of it being like an endless void of people, you know, um, can't remember what the app is, where like you type a word and then like it goes to your DMs. What's that app? Do you know what I'm talking about? It's like no. It's like right sustainable in the comments. And then like suddenly you're funneled into their DMs and tell you stuff.
Kurt Elster • 40:58.160
I'm sure there's several of those, those chat bots, yeah.
Kate Assaraf • 41:00.880
Yeah, there's a so many of those at this point. And I think it kind of takes the personality away from a brand and and it's and it prevents people from engaging in the first place. And the engagement is where you learn. You know, it's where you learn as the entrepreneur. Like I want to know everything about the negativity and the positive stuff.
Kurt Elster • 41:19.740
All right, so my I think my last question here, I want to know what's the what's the best decision you made in this last four years that everybody told you was stupid? I mean everything we're doing here is like counterculture, you know, ignoring advice. What's the one that you're like this is you're gonna zag when everybody said you should zag yeah.
Kate Assaraf • 41:38.480
Well, first of all, I was like I was very, very scared to do this, but it was building my own manufacturing facility. I s when I say that I don't mean like we I I built the building from scratch. The building existed and I I um built had my own factory built. And that was at a critical point where A contract manufacturer that I worked with took a lot of money for purchase order and then went bankrupt. And so I didn't have the products or the money. And so I was like, and this was in this is pretty early on. So uh uh at the end of 2022 into 2023, and I just launched in October 2021. So I was like, okay, I've been in the beauty industry for a long time and one of the deals I have with this contract manufacturer was like they made our bars exclusively. like there was no other competitors in that lane. Because in beauty, what happens is if something's successful, then they just change the formula just a little bit, the marketing ingredients, and then they farm it off to another customer. So I was very particular about having exclusivity with this manufacturer. So then my decision was like, okay, uh, I still gotta make this or I have no company at all. Um, do I bring it over to another contract manufacturer where I couldn't trust them to be exclusive? Because that's not. They they can argue that they to make it, they batch it, they now know the formula, and then they can like farm it off to a Unilever or whatever. Like And so I, out of sheer protection, just the way I am about like the meta ads thing, sheer protect like protecting our formulas. I built the factory. I brought the people that lost their jobs over to my my factory one by one as I could afford them. And now we have our own um our own facility, which is crazy because Because I was so scared to do it. But it felt like the only way I could I the only way to survive. Um and now the you know, the four people in uh are or manufacturing facility, like they've been friends for decades. And sometimes I call them like having a party and they're like batching, filling, and it's the same people the whole time. Like there's been no churn there. It's the same people batching the bars forever. And I love I just love that they're there having a good time.
Kurt Elster • 43:59.020
You know, a ha a happy team certainly helps things. And yeah, building a manufacturing facility would scare me, but I also get the position where you're in, where you're like, well, it's better than the alternative. And, you know, long term it totally makes sense. And now you're in this position where things are are vertically integrated.
Kate Assaraf • 44:14.559
Which is great. And and it's it's I never went into this thinking I was gonna own my own American manufacturing facility, but actually that's become very important in the past year. Um that's something people are looking for. And so that's pretty cool.
Kurt Elster • 44:31.240
Yes, no, absolutely. That has that has worked out for you. Uh, what's one thing you wish every Shopify store owner would stop doing?
Kate Assaraf • 44:38.980
Ooh, I think if you're selling anywhere at retail, I I urge you to not undercut your retailers. Like I it's so much easier to sell to a retailer, I think, than to sell to people one by one. Like for sure. For me, it's uh you you do both, right? Like you get everyone has a blended strategy, but if you're undercutting the stores, like you're you're asking for just like slow sales velocity there. And I don't see the point. If you just choose if that's what your plan is, is to kind of discount to Oblivion. Like that is That is a marketing strategy and it's can be a really good one, especially if you're updating your inventory all the time. Like you're selling t-shirts or you're selling, you know, something where that people need over and over again. It's replenishable um or consumable, but like I would suggest to to take it easy on on the discounts. Like if you have something really great um that you also put on shelf, like please let make it so that those stores can sell it as well.
Kurt Elster • 45:39.539
It's good advice that when you hear it, you're like, oh yeah, duh, but absolutely no one does what you just suggested.
Kate Assaraf • 45:44.660
I know. I know.
Kurt Elster • 45:46.220
Instead what they do is they go, hey retailer, you get a here are the exclusions we put on you. You know, you can't, you can only sell here, you can't sell online, and here's you know minimum advertised price policy. And then meanwhile the manufacturer gets to do whatever they want. Yeah. Why do I want to mess with that? Like now I just got I'm giving up valuable shelf space to an item that I have to charge more than the manufacturer does. Like a not attractive premise.
Kate Assaraf • 46:11.059
It makes the stores bitter. Like they're they're like, oh, I'll I'll put your stuff on clearance and I'll put in a brand that doesn't do that. And and I think in this like digital world, like we're seeing right now people, um, you know, one of my employees is younger and everyone in her age group is off social media. They're just like not on it anymore. They've deleted all the apps. As we're going into that new era of social media where everyone's becoming kind of like Everyone's getting like digital hives. They just like don't want it, you know? Um, I think it's important to remember in real life, if people are discovering your product. Like the first thing they're gonna do is go to your website and or Amazon and see if they can get it cheaper. And that's a very, very normal behavior. And if you can stop that and make it so that that person standing in front of your product in real time still wants to purchase it there, that is a win for you as well. Uh it's a win in both lanes.
Kurt Elster • 47:05.500
Absolutely. So if I wanted to buy dip hair care, where would I go?
Kate Assaraf • 47:10.460
So you would go to diplready. com And then you'd fumble through all of our pages if you really want to do a deep dive. And then you can purchase online at on the site or you can go to store locator, make it pretty easy to find, and see if it exists in your town. We sell in surf shops, salons, uh, and zero waste stores, obviously. And um sometimes if you're very skeptical, you can go into one of those stores and Or salons and be like, hey, is this everything it says it is? And they will let you know without me hovering over. Um and they'll let you know why they stock it and whether it's good.
Kurt Elster • 47:46.420
I'm gonna check it out. Well, actually, uh I don't have to reorder yet. I've got my own bar. Yeah. I'll be back later. Maybe I'll just get on the newsletter.
Kate Assaraf • 47:56.320
Awesome.
Kurt Elster • 47:56.880
Kate Asaref, dip, diparready. com. Thank you so much.
Kate Assaraf • 48:00.400
Thank you so much, Kurt. This has been a really fun one.
Kurt Elster • 48:02.760
I'm glad. Alright, F I mean I we'll stop recording and then let's go fix your checkout page.
Kate Assaraf • 48:08.280
Okay, what do I need to do?
Kurt Elster • 48:10.559
Hey, before you go, I was hoping you would check out our new app, Promo Party Pro. It is what I want to be the single best, easiest way to run a free gift with purchase promo on Shopify. We just put it live in the App Store. We've got less than 50 users. We want your feedback. So if you need to run a free gift with purchase promo in the near future, install it, try it. There's a live chat. I check that all the time. And so if you have any issues at all, you know, or any suggestions on how we can make it even easier to use, let us know. We're happy to help.
Speaker 3 • 48:43.940
If you want to try it, search promo party in the app store. Promo PartyPro is the app. Give it a shot. It's got a free trial, thanks