How to Market Your Shopify Store on Instagram Organically
From planning & scheduling your content for Instagram to what does and doesn't work in 2020, our guest today lays out a complete strategy to organic Instagram marketing that anyone can use to market their Shopify store starting today. We finish the episode with answers to your top Instagram questions.
Our Instagram expert in this episode is Leslie Eugene. Over the years, she's developed a reputation for helping fashion & beauty online brands build communities around their product or services that convert their audience into paying customers and brand evangelists. While social media plays a vital role in that conversion, there’s another distinctive key that makes all the difference in her success: her passion for great social media marketing.
Your questions answered:
Kurt Elster: Today on The Unofficial Shopify Podcast, we are going to discuss one of merchants’ favorite topics, social media, and organic social media. Why? Because social media is… There is something inherently fun about it. It is much less of a grind than copywriting a 2,000-word blog article, so I get the appeal and the love of social media as a marketing channel. We are going to ignore debating the efficacy of one channel versus another, because no matter what, you do have to have some kind of social channel. And I enjoy social media, but at the same time, I do not claim to be a social media expert. I’m experienced in promoting myself, but I’m not a social media expert.
So, I wanted to bring on someone today who could answer those questions for us, who is a social media expert, and who I have worked with in the past on a couple of projects and seen her tremendous wisdom pay off in the form of social success for some of these Shopify merchants. Joining me today is Leslie Eugene from Pretty Haute, H-A-U-T-E, Pretty Haute Marketing. UrPrettyHaute.com is her site, and over the years she has developed quite the reputation for helping fashion and beauty online brands not only target their online buyer, but build a community around their product and services that converts visitors, looky loos, into paying customers and brand evangelists. And while social media plays a vital role in that conversion, there’s another distinctive key that makes all the difference in her success, and that’s passion, and I have witnessed this firsthand, absolutely.
Leslie, thank you for joining us.
Leslie Eugene: I love that intro.
Kurt Elster: What you should do is just… What people should do is just cut that down and then just use that as like… for the start of their YouTube videos. Maybe we should bring back websites with sounds. You land on your site, or like the about page, and then it just starts, I just start rattling off, and then it fades out.
Leslie Eugene: Right. Yes.
Kurt Elster: I missed my calling as a voiceover artist.
Leslie Eugene: Thank you for that.
Kurt Elster: All right, so, Leslie, how did we get here? How long have you been doing social media?
Leslie Eugene: As long as Instagram started.
Kurt Elster: Oh, man. When did it start, like 2013? I don’t know anymore.
Leslie Eugene: Yeah. I’m going to say 2013, yeah. So, I’m gonna say two years after that, like 2015.
Kurt Elster: Okay. How long have you been doing this professionally?
Leslie Eugene: I’m gonna say 2015, 2016.
Kurt Elster: Okay.
Leslie Eugene: Well, yeah, so when social media started, people… I was into the aesthetic before the word aesthetic and curating content was a thing. People were just posting. I was focused on what should I post next so it can look good next to it.
Kurt Elster: So, having that full… When you look at the Instagram profile and you see that grid view, what’s that look? What do those first images look? That gives me a snapshot of a theme here. And you’re right-
Leslie Eugene: I was obsessed with that.
Kurt Elster: Very early on, it was very much like a shotgun approach of like, “Well, I’m gonna post this for today, and then tomorrow it’s something else, and on and on.” And now things are much more sophisticated.
Leslie Eugene: Right. I was obsessed.
Kurt Elster: What do you think is… Since you’ve been doing this for at least five years, what’s different now, do you think, between 2020 and 2015?
Leslie Eugene: People are more intentional now. They would rather not post at all if it doesn’t have any substance. So, before, we would post at the drop of a dime, not caring what type of filter we used. Now people are more intentional. Even if they’re not selling something, they’re selling something, if that makes sense. They want to still present an online present that shows value, even if they don’t have a service or product.
Kurt Elster: So, they’re trying to demonstrate the value in following them to curate an audience. That’s how I interpreted that.
Leslie Eugene: Yes.
Kurt Elster: You’re seeing people start with audience building, like around a theme, even if that theme is an aesthetic, before they’ve got anything to sell.
Leslie Eugene: Yes. It can just be a lifestyle, their personal lifestyle.
Kurt Elster: Okay.
Leslie Eugene: Rather than just selling a product or service, it could be their personal lifestyle they try to sell, but they are very curated, very specific and intentional about what they post. Before, we would post hanging out with our friends, drinking. Now, we are making sure that it’s a little more reserved, but not in a sense of being so professional. Still showing our personal, you know, personality, our… Not just being reserved, but just being a little more free spirit, but still be intentional about being free spirit.
Kurt Elster: So, it went from just like, “All right, here’s me…” It was more, I think there was a little more genuineness early on in social media, in that it’s like, “This is what I’m doing. This is what’s up.” And now it’s a lot more… I think the frequency is higher, but the curation is there, and there’s definitely a theme.
Leslie Eugene: Yes.
Kurt Elster: Like everybody is trying to show their best life, their highlight reel, and there is some agenda there in the audience building.
Leslie Eugene: Yes. There is an agenda. There is always an agenda, I feel like now.
Kurt Elster: And the agenda is more followers, typically.
Leslie Eugene: Yes.
Kurt Elster: Okay, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. So, starting, so I opened, I said social, social, social. I did not define what channels, what platforms we’re talking about. What’s your preferred social media channel? What are we talking about here?
Leslie Eugene: Instagram. I love Instagram, everything about Instagram. I wish I could say Facebook and Twitter, but Instagram is my jam.
Kurt Elster: It’s funny how like everyone kind of has a social media platform, like there’s always one that they do well, exceptionally well on, unless you’re like Gary Vee, in which case you do well on all of them. Like for me, I got 700 Instagram followers, and that was hard earned, because it’s just me posting drone videos and bunny stories. Literally, my rabbit. Versus like Twitter, I got like 6,500 followers, I think, and it’s because the strategies for each of these channels are very different. What is different about Instagram versus some of these other channels?
Leslie Eugene: Instagram is a visual platform, and when it comes to scrolling your feed, I feel like with Twitter, I like to read more witty response commentaries, compared to Instagram, I’m all about making sure that, especially when it relates to my clients, I’m all about making sure that I’m stopping someone in their tracks based off of the image or the video.
Kurt Elster: And with that, you said stopping in their tracks. I love the phrase “thumbstopper.” I don’t know who introduced me to that, but that phrase… Like you’re scrolling through this gazing pool. It is infinite content with many of these platforms, especially Instagram and Twitter, and you’re looking for the thing that stops them from scrolling. The thumbstopper. What gets people’s attention versus what doesn’t? What are some of the things that you… Do you have a sense of you look at an image and you know this will or won’t work?
Leslie Eugene: Yes. First, quality. An iPhone. Use an iPhone. But quality first. Now, memes are catching my attention, and honestly, if it’s a great meme, the caption gives me a reason to play it more than 15 seconds. So, for me it’s quality and then it’s the caption.
Kurt Elster: Okay, and is there… How do you determine brand voice? What will and won’t work?
Leslie Eugene: That’s a good question, so whenever I hire a client, I give them a questionnaire, and when they answer those questions, like, “What is your brand personality? Is it spontaneous? Is it reserved? Is this educational?” Those three pointers right there identify like how I should move forward in speaking in that brand tone. If it’s an account that enjoys sharing humor, you might see a lot of memes, or you might see a lot of trending topics. I know the Simpsons have a good amount of content that’s instantly funny and current. It may work well on one account compared to an account that would prefer to have captions that are more humorous.
So, I think once you identify what your brand is known for or people are engaging in, I like to look at the analytics, checking the shares and saves, then you can kind of identify, “Okay. This is what my audience like. This is what I should be doing more of.” And then also, if you have built a personal online presence, you can tie that into your brand, as well.
Kurt Elster: Okay. You brought up personal branding. I think more than ever, we see merchants and founders engaged in personal branding and trying to build, or often like before… If it’s a lifestyle brand, before the brand has launched, trying to build a cult of personality. What do you think? Well, what are your thoughts on that, on personal branding?
Leslie Eugene: I think now, and I hate to say this, I feel like sometimes now it’s harder, like you mentioned it took you a while to get 700 followers, but when I go on your page, I don’t ever see you on there. I only see what your interest is, right? Or what you like to share based on your interests. Where people that started Facebook back in the days and they weren’t really being intentional, they were just being themselves, and then they learned how to leverage on that by creating a product or providing a service, then it’s been easier for them.
When I gained 20K followers, it was the first five years of me running on Instagram. Now, it’s taking forever just to gain a thousand followers.
Kurt Elster: So, it’s definitely getting harder.
Leslie Eugene: It’s definitely getting hard, but if you built an online presence before people were really making money on Instagram, it’s really easy to transition to wherever you want, as long as your community… As long as you’re speaking to your community and creating content or services for them. But for your brand, if I go on there, I think I tagged you. If I go on there, people are not gonna know who Kurt is, but they-
Kurt Elster: Not on Instagram. Not at all.
Leslie Eugene: Not on Instagram. But they’re definitely gonna know your interests.
Kurt Elster: On Instagram, they’re like, “It’s a guy who flies drones and has a rabbit.” Yes. No, I’m fully aware of the issue with my Instagram account as a professional thing, like it’s purely my personal life, whereas like Twitter, and LinkedIn, and the Facebook pages, and the Facebook group, that’s all the professional hot takes. But on Instagram, I’m like I don’t know, I just want one social platform that’s just normal me, just stuff I’m doing, and I just go back… Sometimes I use it to reminisce. I just go back through my stories or my posts. I really enjoy it. But yes, no, you are 100% right in your analysis, and it’s always funny when someone business-wise tags my Instagram account in something business related, and then I get a bunch of followers. I’m like, “Uh oh, you guys are gonna be disappointed. It’s not what you think.”
Talk to me about content scheduling. In much of my content, I have it scheduled out a month. Like if I got hit by a bus today, I would be tweeting for the next four to six weeks. I love scheduling content. I love it. Talk to me about content planning, content calendars, planning your content ahead. I think this is a missed opportunity for a lot of people.
Leslie Eugene: Okay, so let’s say you just started, and you will… I would suggest starting off with just three posts per week, so that gives you about 12 to 15 posts per month, right? So-
Kurt Elster: Doesn’t feel like a lot, but it’s harder than you think.
Leslie Eugene: And the easiest way to start is by Googling national holidays. National holidays are the easy things that you ought to get ideas of type of content you can create for your brand, and based off of these national holidays, and I’m not just talking about 4th of July, Thanksgiving. I’m talking about cool holidays, like Internet Day, or Founders Day, things that can be relevant to your brand. You can start off there. Then, start focusing on what type of content, or promotions, or events that you’re gonna have the next following month. Make a list of those things, then start looking for content, like visuals, images, videos, and then start compiling that using Pinterest, Google, maybe check your tagged photos or saved content you’ve already saved, and then compile it into a scheduling app.
I like to use Planoly. Once you start compiling that information, look at a calendar and see, “Okay, I have three days this week, or next month. The first week of next month that I want to post.” Figure out what day will work for you and start uploading that content to the Planoly app. From there, then you go into caption. That may sound a lot, but if you work on a week-to-week basis, it’ll be helpful, but planning content in advance will save a lot of time, and I always recommend starting at least three times, posting three times a week, compared to focusing on posting 30 posts in a one-month period.
Kurt Elster: So, what I’m hearing here is go for quality over quantity with my posts, and start with three a week, use a scheduling app like Planoly, which I… I’ll put it in the show notes, but it’s P-L-A-N-O-L-Y dot com. And I haven’t used that one. I use Buffer.
Leslie Eugene: Oh, okay.
Kurt Elster: My wife uses Tailwind. There’s no end to social media planning apps, so like use the one you’re comfortable with, but I’ll put Planoly in here. So, and then you had a good approach, kind of like working backwards. Define the holidays that you want to work around, which… For all you know, it could be just about every holiday. It’s like whatever you want to do, and determine, all right, for this, let’s say we do it for the next 90 days. We do it for a quarter. All right, what are the holidays this month? I can Google those, find that easily. Or just go in my calendar. And then I got that.
All right, now what promotions am I gonna run for those? Okay, plan the promotions out. All right. Now, what social media content can I produce around that? And I like that you said, “Hey, go back through your old stuff. Build a library of your past hits.” And some of these social media planning tools will, as you post stuff, can go back, and tell you like, “Well, these are the posts that got the highest engagement.” So, you start to figure out, “Ah, this is the stuff that works.” So, maybe you figure out a format that works.
Like for me, I’m best known for the quick win, and it’s just like my observations, stuff I like, stuff we did that I thought was interesting. So, one you kind of get a format that works there, then all right, then plan all that out, write the content, and then put it into this social media planner, Planoly. And from there, okay, great, it’s set it and forget it. And then I assume there’s also along with that, all right, great, I can do my newsletters based off this calendar. I can do my Facebook ads. Starting with this social… once I have this content calendar, everything starts building off of that.
Leslie Eugene: Correct. You are so good at saying things. I’m terrible.
Kurt Elster: Well, A, I think that’s one of my skills, but B, the magic is you’re having to explain this on the spot. I’m sitting here taking notes so that it’s very easy for me to go, “All right, well, it sounds like…” And then I read back what you said to me from my notes.
Leslie Eugene: You’re a good listener.
Kurt Elster: Always makes it sound like, “Oh, he’s so smart.” No, I’m just taking notes. Okay, so from I got my scheduling down, I like the quality over quantity, does it matter when I post?
Leslie Eugene: No, I honestly don’t think it matters. Even looking at your Instagram and the analytics, I feel like that’s just a bunch of BS, like it doesn’t matter. It matters what you post and the content that you’re posting is relevant, it’s engaging, it’s inspiring, it’s motivating, it’s educational, it’s something that your audience wants. That’s all that matters. If I post at 1:00 AM and it’s a banging lifestyle photo of myself, I’m gonna get a lot of likes and comments, right?
Kurt Elster: When I post is not that important, because if the audience is engaged with it, then the algorithm will reward me.
Leslie Eugene: Right. Exactly. Doesn’t matter when you post.
Kurt Elster: So, there’s no like quick win secret. Well, this is like the exact right time to post. I see people obsess over that stuff when really, over and over, the theme here is the content is what matters. If you don’t have good content, who cares when you’re posting it?
Leslie Eugene: Content is king.
Kurt Elster: Okay, and we talked about… We mentioned the algorithm a little bit. How do I… People love the quick wins. They love the tricks for the algorithm. How do I play to the algorithm? How do I optimize for the algorithm? Even if this is a best guess. What does your experience tell you?
Leslie Eugene: Honestly, there’s no really way to trick the algorithm, but I do it all the time, whenever I haven’t posted in a while, and honestly, if you are known for posting quotes and you notice quotes are like your highest engagement, randomly post a quote that you probably found in your feed that either made you laugh, that you made you feel like, “Oh, aha.” It was an aha moment for you. Because I feel like that same feeling you received when you saw that quote is the same feeling your audience is gonna receive, especially one of those motivational quotes. 2020 is still my year. Something simple as that, right? Post it in your feed and maybe add more content in the captions, maybe not. It depends on who you are, what your brand is, and see how that spikes your engagement.
And for me, once someone shows interest, you already have them in your… You already have them in the loop of being seen more often. So for me, it’s just finding content, your most engaging content, randomly post that, even if it’s a year ago, post it again, and see if you notice people are engaging to that by just liking, commenting, sharing, and even if you don’t get a lot of comments or likes, focus on your shares and saves and you’ll notice they’re gonna start seeing your content more often. If you continue that once in a while.
Kurt Elster: When we talk about the Instagram algorithm, what actually are we talking about? Because like Instagram, one might think you have followed people in your feed, you have chosen these are the people I want to see, and you would think that Instagram just shows you, like it knows who you’re following and it knows what time they posted. You would think that it just shows you that stuff. Just shows you the posts of the people you follow chronologically. It doesn’t, does it?
Leslie Eugene: It does not.
Kurt Elster: What does it do to me?
Leslie Eugene: It shows you whenever I show interest. I haven’t seen… Here’s an example. I haven’t seen your account in my feed. I didn’t even know I was still following you. So, when I tagged you today, I went on your page, I was like, “I’m following you, but I’ve never seen your content.” I’ve never seen your content.
Kurt Elster: I rarely post, but I mostly post stories.
Leslie Eugene: Right.
Kurt Elster: But yes, you’re right. Instagram is like, “Mm, this guy’s not doing it. No.”
Leslie Eugene: So, I went on your Instagram story. You only had one story, right? But I bet within the next 24 to 48 hours, if I like your… I haven’t liked a post, but if I just show interest once by liking either one of your posts, or go through your stories, within 24 to 48 hours, I’ll probably see a post that you shared maybe three days ago.
Kurt Elster: Interesting. I want to… Okay, so it’s engagement of any kind is how to play to the algorithm, and the only way you get that engagement is with content relevant to the people who are following you. That’s what I’m hearing.
Leslie Eugene: As long as I showed interest. If I see you on my page and don’t like, comment, or go through your story, I’m showing Instagram that I’m not really interested in your content, so they won’t continue showing it to me.
Kurt Elster: The impression is not enough.
Leslie Eugene: Right. No. It’s not enough.
Kurt Elster: Okay. And when I’m looking at my Instagram stories and it’s like it’s got the bubble, like the red circle, like, “Oh, this person has a story.” Those are not in chronological order either, are they?
Leslie Eugene: No. Absolutely not. I see the same five people-
Kurt Elster: That actually is a surprise to me. I did not realize that.
Leslie Eugene: I see the same five people on my posts, like my top five, because I am always in their stories. But if I scroll all the way back, these are people that just posted five minutes ago that’s all the way at the end of the list, because I’ve never showed any interest by either going to their account and pressing the icon, or their profile image, or actually being… It’s being shared to me, and then finding their image based off of a shared content to me. So, it’s really about taking that next action beyond just watching, or I’m sorry, beyond just an impression. Unless it’s someone that does not follow you.
If it’s someone that found your content on their explore page, it might be a little different. You’ll start seeing them in your explore more often, and then that gives them more, a higher chance to get that follow. So, it will depend if the person is following you or is it someone that’s not following you.
Kurt Elster: Talk to me about stories on how optimizing for stories versus post in Instagram is different.
Leslie Eugene: Stories, you should post every single day. You don’t have to worry about quality, be yourself, engage as much as you can. When someone shows interest by even sharing an emotion, do… I honestly utilize that every day from the time you wake up to the time you go to sleep, because you’re not only sharing… I mean, you’re showing more of your personality. People are buying into you, whereas in your feed, you’re more focused on how you’re, like you said, the top nine look. How the next post is looking. You’re more focused on your presence, whereas your stories, it’s all about not really giving a damn. Just showing up every day and utilizing that every single day.
Kurt Elster: The impermanence of stories, the fact that they’re only there 24 hours then they’re gone, gives them a more authentic, genuine, real quality, and it also encourages… You feel more comfortable just doing… Maybe more personal stuff in stories, because it’s not memorialized forever on your Instagram page.
Leslie Eugene: Unless you put it on your highlights.
Kurt Elster: Okay. For people who… We’re getting into the deep cuts with Instagram by the time you’re doing highlights. What’s the highlight strategy?
Leslie Eugene: It’s like a resource. And it’s also like a brag, depending on what you’re putting in your highlights. It’s a brag or a resource.
Kurt Elster: Yeah, for like a lifestyle brand.
Leslie Eugene: Right.
Kurt Elster: It could be. Yeah, just bragging, like, “Yeah, here’s my car collection.” That kind of stuff. Or yeah, I like the idea of kind of like grouping it into a best of, a resource, FAQ, talk to me about the resource idea. You’ve piqued my interest.
Leslie Eugene: Resource. Start off if you have a clothing store, I would like to see FAQs. I would like to see possibly promos. Make sure you’re updating that often. New arrivals. Again, updating that often. Maybe founders or the editor’s favs of the month. Things like that, but make sure you’re updating often, because I notice people avoid going into your stories when they see a trail of dots. If it’s a highlight and they see a trail of dots, they are not as encouraging to go through it. So, keep it to a limited amount of content in your highlights, but also valuable.
Kurt Elster: What’s the limit?
Leslie Eugene: There is no limit, but if you want to, I’m gonna say as much as you… Because you can keep scrolling, so if you have to scroll more than twice, it’s too… There are too many highlights on your profile. So, I’m gonna say five to six.
Kurt Elster: Okay. All right. And then the total number of stories in the highlights.
Leslie Eugene: Oh, okay. Total number of stories. I’m gonna say 20 would be okay, because once you get to 20, it starts looking like an ant trail, like you don’t want that many dots on the top.
Kurt Elster: Yeah, suddenly at the top, the indicator that shows… So, when you’re looking at stories, much like a carousel on a website, it’s got like a progress indicator at the top of how far you’re in that story and how many other stories follow, and yeah, it’s like intimidating and weird when you land on somebody’s stories and the top of the page just looks like a dotted border. You’re like, “Uh, okay.” I know it’s only 16 seconds at a time, but it’s weird.
One of the things I see people do with stories is like sometimes it’ll be the talking head, like it’s just them talking face to camera. But there’s no captioning in stories, and there’s no… Like you could add captions, but on its own, it doesn’t do it. And I think most people, I’m guessing, listen with it muted. Because people who don’t have their phone on mute are obviously monsters. I suppose you could have AirPods in. But is that… Is there a strategy there for the fact that stories are often listened to without sound?
Leslie Eugene: I don’t believe so. I think that’s for ads. Stories, people listen to. Yes. Stories people listen to. Because that’s where the good stuff is, like that’s where you really… Yeah, people don’t care about makeup, they don’t care about if they haven’t brushed their teeth. You see the real nitty gritty, and that’s what consumers want to see, especially for the people that I follow, like I want to see that. I don’t… And I think people like that about me, like I’m really funny in my stories. I use stories for storytelling, so I really create an entire storyline when I’m giving a conversation by adding my .gifs. Yeah, like you said, people don’t put captions as much, because it’s not needed. If I feel like I need to use a .gif to make sure they understand that this is the moment that you need to turn your sound on, add that .gif. Sound on.
There’s so much you can do with stories. I love it.
Kurt Elster: I love tools. People love tools. You mentioned… What the heck was the name of that thing? Oh, Planoly. I was about to say planopoly. Planoly. Are there any other tools you use?
Leslie Eugene: Okay, so keep in mind whenever I share anything, I’m a social media manager, so I’m always speaking from that perspective and not actually how I manage my account, because I do the opposite. I barely post on my feed, to be honest. So, Planoly and Iconosquare are the two platforms that I use when it comes to Instagram. Oh, and Pinterest. And Pinterest, because that’s where you can compile a lot of content of all your interests into one platform.
Kurt Elster: What the heck is Iconosquare?
Leslie Eugene: It’s an app that also allows you to schedule, but I primarily use it for analytics.
Kurt Elster: Okay, so you… I’m looking at Iconosquare, and it does seem like the analytics is their lead thing. They describe themselves as the most powerful analytics management and scheduling platform for brands and agencies. This looks pretty cool. So, like I’ve got, like for my Twitter, and I could see my analytics in Twitter, I could see them in Buffer, the social media tool I use. But I like the charts, I like when the follower count goes up, but beyond that I really don’t know what I’m doing with the analytics. Like when you’re looking at Iconosquare analytics for an Instagram client, what are you looking for? How do I get actionable insights out of these numbers?
Leslie Eugene: We can actually compare if you’re… Compare from organic to paid. We can see the evolution of your followers. We can actually even see, because I know on your Instagram analytics, you can’t go back no more than 14 days for Instagram stories. We can go back as far as 30-
Kurt Elster: Oh, that’s not particularly helpful, is it?
Leslie Eugene: No. We can go back as far as 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. We can see… Let’s see here. Profile views, website clicks, and those, and also see how many people are actually responding to your video stories, or photo stories. It’s a lot, and I really like how detailed it is, and you can also go into comparing your competitors, your hashtags. Hashtags, sorry. It’s a lot of information in there compared to what you would see… You use Buffer, right?
Kurt Elster: Yeah.
Leslie Eugene: Yeah. Compare it to what you would see in Buffer, or even in your back end of Instagram.
Kurt Elster: I’ve tried a bunch of tools and I always end up back at Buffer just because it’s the simplest. Like I’ve got a Facebook group in there, I got two Facebook pages, Twitter, and my Twitter and LinkedIn, and it just makes it so easy to build… I call it the social media habit, because I’ve had friends be like, “Kurt, oh, your social media’s so good. What’s your strategy?”
The strategy is it’s become a habit, like I would literally… I now, if I just see something interesting on a website, my immediate… I have a thought pops in my head like, “Oh, this is interesting.” I will screenshot it and then write a quick post about it, put it into Buffer, select the accounts that I think it’s gonna resonate on, and schedule it. And then because it’s scheduled so far out, like once a week I’ll go through and maybe I’ll be like… I’ll rethink a few. I’m like, “Eh, that one doesn’t make sense,” or, “I don’t like this one.” Or maybe it belongs in a different network. And I think really a lot of being successful doing your own social media is just building that muscle, that habit, where like it’s a skill, but it’s one of those things where if you do it every day, it just gets so much easier.
Leslie Eugene: I have question. So, when you do that, that’s for Facebook you’re speaking of, not really for any other platform that you use?
Kurt Elster: Twitter, LinkedIn, and Facebook. That’s how I manage them.
Leslie Eugene: Okay, so that’s why it’s better for you. I usually like to work with apps that’s primarily if you’re interested in Instagram, like if your primary focus is Instagram, that’s what I prefer. Instead of having the opportunity to manage all in one platform.
Kurt Elster: Right. Yes, and like Buffer falls flat on its face with Instagram, so maybe that’s part of why I have not capitalized on Instagram. Okay, my last… Actually… Oh, you know too much. I have too many questions for you. So, I’ve got four quick questions for you, and then I gotta do the audience Q&A.
Leslie Eugene: Okay.
Kurt Elster: Because we got several questions from people in our Facebook group for you, and then we’ll wrap it up. So, talk to me about hashtags. Do they matter? Is there a strategy there? Should I care about hashtags on Instagram?
Leslie Eugene: Hashtags do matter. The strategy is incorporating branded hashtags that are used for resources for your audience or potential followers, and common hashtags, but not as popular, and you can niche that down by just adding your city or your state to that hashtag. For example, if you are a skincare product, you will have your branded hashtag, you will place that hashtag in your bio, and then on only content that you’re posting that’s relevant to your brand or product. Then you would combine that with popular hashtags, and maybe you have an acne-prone skincare product. You will use that #acneproneskincare, but if you want to niche it down to a specific audience, maybe Black-owned skincare products, or African American acne-prone skin, that’s how you can leverage off of hashtags and not just put skincare, acne. You know?
Kurt Elster: Right. Yeah, because something like that would have like 10 million posts on it. You’ll just buried immediately.
Leslie Eugene: Exactly. But hashtags are very important. And I like hashtags that are branded, because it becomes a resource. Now I can see how many of their… It’s like a brand recognition. How many people are really using that resource, I’m sorry, that hashtag, for that brand?
Kurt Elster: All right. I like this. This had not occurred to me. So, I use… Just as highlights can be a resource of like, “Here’s your best of stories sorted by group,” to assist a customer, you could do the same thing with a branded hashtag on your post and call it to their attention by putting it in the bio.
Leslie Eugene: Yes. For sure.
Kurt Elster: That’s smart. That one is entirely new to me. I like that. Okay, we’ve talked a lot about best practices here. What are some examples of just completely screwing it up? Like if I just wanted to fail at social media, what’s the strategy there?
Leslie Eugene: Out of sight, out of mind. Deciding because you don’t know what to do, you’re not going to do it. I think that’s the… Because that’s what a lot of people decide. They’re like, “It’s not working. I’m not gonna do it.”
Kurt Elster: Right. They’ll be like, “Well, I tried. I posted for a month and nothing happened, so Facebook just doesn’t work for my brand. Instagram just doesn’t…” It’s like no, you didn’t go long enough at it. As I like to tell my children, wisdom I learned from the award-winning cartoon, Adventure Time, you have to suck at stuff before you can be good at it.
Leslie Eugene: I agree with that.
Kurt Elster: My oldest, we have to remind him of this frequently, because he’s like, “Oh, I’m just not good at it.” Like, “Well, you didn’t in any work. You gotta be bad at it first and that’s okay.” And I think the same is true, like just as when you start your brand, you’re trying to get those first sales, and it’s so hard, and then you kind of like work your way through it. Well, it’s the same with Instagram, like every follow, every like, every comment should be viewed as a conversion, and doing the things, the tactics and strategies that get that engagement, those social media conversions, you don’t start knowing that. You figure it out through trial and error.
And so, you do have to suck at it for a little while, and then you’ll get progressively better with it. Especially when you have… You’re taking this very intentional approach that you’ve described to us, this intentional strategy, and then you’re combining it with these fancy analytics tools that make it very easy.
Leslie Eugene: Yes.
Kurt Elster: Okay. Who does it right? Who are some examples, a few examples of brands maybe that you’ve worked with, or brands that are like inspirational for you? Who’s doing this right? Who doesn’t suck at Instagram social media?
Leslie Eugene: Okay, when it comes to engagement, I’m going to call out someone that I admire in building a community and not worrying about how their feed looks, but still able to make it, and her name is Mia Ray. She sells a travel lifestyle brand, and she has a personal brand, of course, a personal Instagram account, and then also a business Instagram account. And she’s able to prepare her audience for every launch and able to sell out, and I feel like it’s only because she’s not selling every day. She’s educating her audience in small things on how to save $50 a week, and that has nothing to do with travel. She’s just sharing her personal lifestyle, building a community of like-minded women, and not caring about being… I know she’s intentional, but not caring about appearing intentional, and still making sales, still selling out on her products whenever she launches, which is literally once every two months.
Kurt Elster: Okay. I will link to her in the show notes. I Googled it quickly and found immediately like Mia Ray, Confessions Of A Glam-Aholic has 88,000 followers, and seems to follow your advice with the stories, where the stories appear to be… It’s like money tips, couponing, travel. They’re grouped by… They’re resources, grouped, where like it’s not her showing off. It’s her saying, “Hey, here’s helpful advice for you that I put together.”
Leslie Eugene: Yes.
Kurt Elster: It looks pretty good. Any other brands you like before we move on?
Leslie Eugene: Yes. Snob Life. The brand owner is Ming Lee. M-I-N-G L-E-E. She is very creative. She has the resources to be creative, but she’s very creative, and she… Can I curse? I want to say a product that she just created, and it’s called F Boy Repellant, so it’s a rosewater spray that people use, that women use, whether it’s for just daily skincare, or to perfect their makeup. She created… She did a Beyoncé. Beyoncé created Lemonade because of her relationship with Jay-Z, and she created an entire campaign based off of her recent breakup, and she created a rosemary bottle called F Boy Repellant, and every spray would keep an F Boy away. So, I just thought that was genius, and she sells hair products, so she combined, again, her lifestyle, leveraged off of a breakup, to maximize her sales off of things that is not even what she’s currently selling. She sells hair extensions, and now she’s maximize… I just love the brilliance of being able to leverage off of your heartbreak. And Beyoncé did a good job with Lemonade by creating the album based off of her heartbreak and relationship with Jay-Z, so I thought that was genius.
Kurt Elster: All right, let’s do some listener Q&A. Are you ready?
Leslie Eugene: For sure.
Kurt Elster: Alexander Babich asks, “What’s the drawback in switching to a business account on Instagram – how much organic reach do you lose?”
Leslie Eugene: If you’re not consistently using your business account, that’s the only drawback, and I understand why a lot of personal accounts prefer to just run their business on their personal account, but I feel like if you want to target a specific audience and not mix that audience together, create a business account and be intentional and that, and then use your lifestyle… I’m sorry, your personal account, to continue promoting your business account. The only drawback from that is not posting consistently and being intentional on your business account compared to your personal.
Kurt Elster: Is it just like a blanket, “Hey, just use the business account?”
Leslie Eugene: Yes, because I would prefer to see an Instagram ad on my feed to your business instead of your personal, because it confuses me.
Kurt Elster: Yeah, it is weird. It’s also like when you share the post, it’s like, “Oh, share it to Facebook.” Well, do you want it to share to your personal account? Probably not if the Instagram is a business account. That’s the only way to link it to a page, right?
Leslie Eugene: Right. Yes. That’s correct.
Kurt Elster: So, that one’s pretty straightforward. Justin Baum asks, “What are the top three things,” and feel free to do the top one or two. “What are the top things small businesses should be doing on social that they probably aren’t?”
Leslie Eugene: Adding a call to action. I see a lot of businesses failing to… If they don’t have a swipe up feature, they forget to say, “Link is in my bio.” Sometimes you have to remind people to do what you want them to do. That’s one of the things.
Showing up every day, like we mentioned before. Giving up too soon. You just never know. If you can show up every day for 90 days, every single day, and when I say every single day, that’s your stories, not really your feed, and be intentional in the type of content. Say, “I’m gonna schedule in advance.” I’m just gonna say those are the top two. Just showing up every day and including a call to action. Telling your audience what you want them to do, whether it’s giving your advice on your next podcast, or click the link in my bio to view my most recent blog post, give that action at the end and it can possibly prompt more visitors to your site or more clicks to your website.
Kurt Elster: I think in digital marketing in general, a lot of people really overlook the call to action. It’s such a critical thing, and it really, it gets skipped a lot. And Instagram makes it harder, because you can’t put a link in a post. Like you can, but it’s just not particularly useful in any way. And then on stories, you can’t use links unless you have over 10,000 followers, and then you get to do swipe up, which I’m so jealous of that. It’s so cool. So, it sounds like the solution is link in bio, which really, that has become kind of the standard on Instagram, and the advantage there is… The disadvantage is, “Hey, I can’t do links on everything and people gotta click through.” But it really does kind of force you to be focused and timely in what you’re doing, because you can only have one link at a time going. One proper link, anyway.
Leslie Eugene: I just want to add one more thing. Instead of responding with an emoji or liking a comment when someone actually shows some type of interest, have a conversation, or move that conversation to your DM. Start nurturing your potential customers or clients by really expanding the conversation.
Kurt Elster: With actual, real relationships and conversations?
Leslie Eugene: Yes, yes. It’s hard for a lot of people to do that, but yeah. Instead of just liking-
Kurt Elster: It is, but I guarantee, like you get these same people on Tinder, and they’re gonna be writing paragraphs. But it’s like comments from random strangers on social media, just like it and move on. Yeah, like it and move. I’m guilty of this. I don’t respond to everything. But when you do take time out of your day and respond genuinely to someone and it turns into one quick conversation, and then another, and then another, and then pretty soon you go, “Oh, shoot. I made a friend.” Right? That’s how relationship building works in real life. It is no different on social media. So, I don’t know why we act any different.
Meri Geraldine asks, and we covered this one, but let’s spell it out for people. “How often do you recommend posting on IG stories?”
Leslie Eugene: Minimum three times a week, so you can have at least 12 to 15 posts per month, so your most nine recent months can look amazing.
Kurt Elster: Very, very good. Dylan Chipp. “How should an eCom store social media strategy change over the course of the store’s maturity?” All right, so this is a good question. He’s saying like what’s the 10,000 foot view, what’s the social media strategy look like before the store is live? When it goes live? As they’re growing, and then when they reach their ripe old age of maturity?
Leslie Eugene: I want to use Beyoncé again as an example, because she did a great job with her most recent campaign. Before we even knew that she was launching the collaboration with Adidas, I believe. Is it Adidas? I think it was. She teased us a little bit and I think teasing your audience often works, and as you go through your campaigns, you see like how far in advance you tease them, that that engagement, did you get a spike in engagement because people were so interested in knowing when is it coming out? What’s next? I need to sign up to your email list so I could be the first to know. And then go into once you do launch it, what tactics did you use when you launched it? Did you give information to your email list first?
Just really gauge your analytics and combine it to whatever you’re using in addition to social media. Is it just newsletters? Are you also sending DMs for people that are coming into your live? I notice I’ve seen that a lot when someone goes live, I might sneak in their live and I get a message, “Hey, thank you for your interest in the live.” And they end up providing me another way where I can reach them. So, I feel like just analyzing your analytics every campaign, and then seeing what didn’t go too well, how you can change it just a little, because I think sometimes just a little change can make your next campaign better, but also really work on that teasing part, because that really helps on moving onto the launch and post-launch success.
Kurt Elster: Okay. And Cesar Torres has a good question, “Can you provide examples of apparel eCommerce brands that have used TikTok for their marketing?” Do you have… All right, so I have set you up here. You told me you’re like, “Eh, I’m not that big on TikTok yet.” All right, give me your feeling, your impression on TikTok.
Leslie Eugene: I love TikTok. I wish I was one of those girls that can do the TikTok. I really, really love it. I would love to see a lot of fashion brands utilize TikTok. But not only that, I do research on TikTok on how I can expand by just sharing knowledge, and I just think it shows more of your personality. You can gain over a thousand TikTok followers in literally five minutes, and that… You can go viral in less than 24 hours. So, TikTok is amazing, and to go viral and translate to Instagram, now people are going… I follow so many people based off of a viral TikTok that’s shared on their Instagram.
So, if you are funny, or if you have the time, I encourage you to use TikTok, because I really wish I was that girl.
Kurt Elster: Well, I think TikTok’s a bit of a lottery in that the TikTok algorithm just kind of like feels like it randomly rewards people. We’re working on a client project right now where they sell candles, they sell bath bombs, and they had some random person just post a video that was nothing amazing. It was cool, but it wasn’t some phenomenal production of this bath bomb, and it exploded. It became like tens of thousands of people saw this thing, and they got so many sales and traffic from it that they were like immediate converts to the TikTok marketing. TikTok marketing all day. We’ll figure this out.
And we have seen, like that’s not the only brand I’ve seen that this has happened to, where either they kind of halfheartedly play with TikTok, and then randomly they have a video that gets 15,000 views. It’s early days with TikTok, but it’s an interesting platform. It’s worth exploring. TikTok scares me.
Leslie Eugene: It’s worth it, though.
Kurt Elster: Gotta play with it. All right. We’ll move on to… I hit you with a TikTok question. Ezriel Polatchek asks, “When does it make sense for a business to hire out for organic social media?”
Leslie Eugene: When you feel like you are getting too many responses, that you can’t control yourself. As I mentioned, it’s not good to just like a comment. It’s more about engaging and nurturing that audience, so if you feel like you’re getting a lot of incoming traffic that you can’t respond yourself, that’s a good reason to hire a social media manager. If you’re not sure what to post, if you’re not sure how to curate a feed that’s aesthetically appealing to your audience, if that’s an option to hire them for one month, just so you can get the idea of what direction you’re gonna go, that’s another way.
And if you just don’t have the time. If you just have the time, but you know social media is going to get you the visitors that you need to your site, because visually, your brand needs to be seen on Instagram more often on their feed, that’s another reason to hire a social media manager.
Kurt Elster: Should I, when I’m looking to hire a social media manager, what should I look for? What would be some of your advice?
Leslie Eugene: Okay, so in my opinion, I think the first thing you need to look for is how do they manage their own Instagram account? Is it aesthetically appealing to you? Secondly, are they able to build their own engagement? I think that’s important, but not as important compared to what results they have shown based off of their clients. Third, ask what’s included. Does it include custom graphics? Does it include social outreach? If it does, does that mean that we’ll have bots, or do you have a team manually doing the social outreach? How many posts are you including per month? And how many stories are you including, and do you manage my incoming messages and also share the posts to my stories when I’m tagged?
Kurt Elster: Okay. Actually, those are all… I would have not thought of all of that and all of that makes sense. It’s really like… Okay, you really listed out kind of a statement of work there, where you’re like this is all of the activities that should go into properly managing a social media channel, and what… How much of that are you doing? If the answer is everything and you also have the case studies and their own Instagram marketing lines up with what you’re looking for, okay, then we got a winner. Like if all of those things overlap on the Venn diagram, then definitely don’t wait to hire that individual. That’s what I got out of that.
Leslie Eugene: Thank you.
Kurt Elster: Last listener question. Json Heap asks, and I think this is a good question, “Does high engagement on your page reduce your ad costs?”
Leslie Eugene: I’m gonna say yes.
Kurt Elster: So, if I get a lot of organic.
Leslie Eugene: Yes.
Kurt Elster: Yes?
Leslie Eugene: Yes, because you can retarget that-
Kurt Elster: I’ve heard this, as well.
Leslie Eugene: You can retarget that audience, I mean those views on your Instagram page if you have a video on there. I know a client that actually don’t have a business account. She only has a personal account and she sells clothes, and all she posts on her feed are videos of memes, and all I need to do is retarget people that watch those videos. She posts her products once a week. Everything else is about her and her family.
Kurt Elster: Interesting. I follow… Yeah, though sometimes store page as meme page, or meme page as store can work. Like I follow one, I’ve started one following last week that I’m obsessed with. It’s called… I love ‘80s ‘90s vibe, and Neon Talk is an Instagram page of like nothing but just straight late ‘80s aesthetic, and then also periodically they also happen to have t-shirts, and art prints, and art blankets for sale that fit that vibe. But it’s like I don’t even care about that stuff, I’m in it for the memes, for the aesthetic, and then all right, they’ll wear me down after six months and I’ll make a purchase.
Leslie Eugene: No. I mean, it brings a lot of attention to your page, and if you have a good commentary comment, where you’re like really explaining what this meme is and introduce me to something you’ve experienced, it just adds more comments, because now people are relatable to what you just said, and now they’re just… Now it’s a discussion in your comments. And they sell clothing product, and I use that specific audience based off of views, video views.
Kurt Elster: Final question. I should have asked this earlier. It came to me. Should I be messing around with live? Live is real-time unlimited story in Instagram. Should I… Who should be using live, if at all?
Leslie Eugene: Someone that is entertaining or educational, you know? I think those are the top people that does well in their live. And I’m gonna bring back Mia Ray. She does… What is that site called, I mean the channel called where they promote products and you can call in to make a purchase?
Kurt Elster: QVC?
Leslie Eugene: She does it.
Kurt Elster: Home Shopping Network?
Leslie Eugene: Yes, and I’m gonna call this the Mia Ray method. She does a QVC video every time she launches a product. She goes live. And she does it a hour before she goes live, and she shows the products, and I think a lot of people should be doing this, because they sell out every time she does this, and I see other people doing the same thing, and they’re making more money because they are going live doing a QVC production. So, I think-
Kurt Elster: And how produced is this? Does it look really good? Or is it more like I’m on the couch with my stuff.
Leslie Eugene: No, it’s like in her living room, and they may have a friend in two different sizes. One small, one plus size, presenting what it would look like before you purchase it.
Kurt Elster: Oh, cool.
Leslie Eugene: Mia Ray does the inside of the product, the quality of the product, how many envelopes are in her wallets. It’s just the entire experience. She tells you how to clean a product. So, you know this all before that hour. She’s online for an hour and at that hour, she goes live, I mean her products go on sale live, and she sells out less than three minutes, so live can be utilized in so many ways, but if you are launching a product, I think an hour before you launch, go live and introduce your products, their benefits, how you can use it, and the quality, et cetera.
Kurt Elster: Yeah. Why not? Try it. See if it works. Okay. Let’s say someone wants to hire you. Where do I go to hire you? You seem so good at this.
Leslie Eugene: Thank you. You go to my website, UR, the letter U, the letter R, PrettyHaute, H-A-U-T-E, .com. And you can schedule a free 20-minute discovery call to see if our business fits with each other.
Kurt Elster: I like free discovery call. That sounds good. I will link to that in the show notes. Leslie, this has been fantastic. Thank you for breaking down social media for us.
Leslie Eugene: Thank you for having me.