w/ David Vranicar, Shopify
“Why not try it? Planet is low-risk, easy to configure, and can have a meaningful impact on your brand and the planet.”
Discover how Shopify Planet helps merchants make a positive environmental impact while boosting customer trust and conversions. David Vranicar, Shopify’s sustainability operations lead, explains how this innovative app enables carbon-neutral shipping with zero hassle. Learn how it works, why it benefits your business, and what it means for your customers.
Show Links
Shopify Planet: https://apps.shopify.com/planet
Reach out to the Planet team: planet [at] shopify.com
Sponsors:
Zipify: http://zipify.com/KURT
Cleverific: https://cleverific.com/unofficial
Boost Filter & Search: https://apps.shopify.com/product-filter-search
Work with Kurt:
🎙️ The Unofficial Shopify Podcast – Your go-to resource for actionable ecommerce insights.
Kurt Elster
This episode is sponsored in part by Boost Commerce. Imagine a search bar that's actually smart, one that helps your customers find what they're looking for without frustration. That's what Boost AI Search and Filter is all about. It's like giving your store a personal shopper right in the search bar. With Boost, shoppers can filter by everything from size to rating. So finding that perfect product is easy. and the frequently bought together and related items recommendations are tailored to your store, giving customers a reason to add more to their carts. Boost even lets you spotlight bestsellers or new arrivals using powerful merchandising tools No coding skills needed. And if you ever do need support, their dedicated team has your back. Ready to make your store smarter? New customers can use the code Kurt. That's K-U-R-T. to get thirty percent off for their first six months. Head to the Shopify App Store, start your 14 day free trial of Boost AI Search and Filter today. To Today in the unofficial Shopify podcast, I want to talk about a a Shopify app, a feature, maybe a suite of features, perhaps an initiative that I don't see being discussed. As often as I think they should, given the impact they could be having on both your bottom line and potentially the environment, yes, today is a sustainability episode. For sure, entrepreneurship, a a a topic close to my heart, not far after it, is sustainability. I have worked in e-commerce most of my adult life. And there is the undeniable reality that every time we are successful in fulfilling an order, there is a carbon footprint to that. There is an environmental cost of varying size. But There are solutions to help offset that, to help undo it a little bit, and realistically, perhaps to help alleviate our guilt, whether that is as uh a customer or a merchant. And so I've had a a few listeners say, hey, you know, there's this thing, it's this app, it's called Shopify Planet. And we've been using it. We really like it. We believe in it. And we wish you'd talk about it. And so I was able to connect with a gentleman at Shopify who leads sustainability operations and who's going to talk us through it and how they've been championing this this carbon neutral app, this the Shopify Planet app. And so David Vranikar joins us to tell us about it. David, how are you doing?
David Vranicar
I'm doing great. Thanks so much for having me on, Kurt.
Kurt Elster
And so we're we're talking about uh Shopify Planet. How how long has this been around? When did it launch?
David Vranicar
Shop by Planet launched in the middle of 2022. So when it when it went live, you know the first order of business was was migrating over folks who had been using offset, which was a a predecessor to Planet. Planet was a big, a big upgrade on Offset. So yeah, first order business was getting all those offset users onto Planet. And then from there we've just been growing, growing the app. Um yeah, every every which way that we can, getting you know, plus users, basic users, um we're across all geos, all all verticals, you know, anybody selling. uh you know anything under the sun is is uh eligible to it's compatible with planets or definitely help happy uh to welcome in uh merchants from any any vertical.
Kurt Elster
And so tell me How did you come to be responsible for Shopify Planet? What what is your role here?
David Vranicar
Yeah, so I Did not start at Shopify in in sustainability. My first my first gig at Shopify was with Oberlo, uh the drop shipping software. Dropshipping software. Yeah, exactly. So Shopify acquired that in 2017, and that was Uh that was my my entry point in into Shopify. So worked with Oberlo for a few years doing marketing. And then from there I went to work for the Handshake Marketplace. The handshake marketplace is a bit of a of a deep cut. You might remember it was a merchant to merchant marketplace uh from the the early 2020s. Um is kind of a predecessor to what today is is Shopify Collective. So really trying to one of my favorites.
Kurt Elster
I I love Collective.
David Vranicar
Yeah, it's it's awesome. Uh handshake was cool, collective is even better. Um so it's it's uh it's awesome to see you know kind of the merchant to merchant. um you know business is happening as well. So yeah, a couple years of overlook, a couple years with handshake. Um and then in the in the meantime, outside of Shopify, I was getting more and more interested in in climate and and sustainability topics, you know, reading books and and listening to podcasts. Since we're kind of becoming, you know, a bigger and bigger piece of my of my you know mind share outside of work.
Kurt Elster
What sparked your interest in sustainability?
David Vranicar
My wife is probably owed some credit here. She works for WWF, World Wildlife Fund. So I'm sure, I'm sure that's part of it. And then I also just I I find climate change and and the just the science. A lot of science is over my head, I'll concede, but I I find the science of it all just really fascinating. Um in a in a very like, you know, the visceral way. I was really intrigued with it. Um, it just was lopping up anything I could get my hands on. Um, you know. after work, uh, you know, listening to podcasts while I jogged or, you know, read read books at night or whatever. And so Shopify had a sustainability team that was growing back in in 2021. And I thought, hey, if I If I could stay at Shopify, which is an awesome, awesome place to work, so much cool stuff that we get to do, so many incredible brands we get to work with. If I can keep doing that. And add sustainability to the fold that would really be the best of both worlds. So I was lucky enough to get the gig. And so I've been with the sustainability crew now at ShopLight for the last uh yeah, three or so years.
Kurt Elster
And as the Shopify's sustainability team, like what's your day-to-day? You know, what what are you doing as as part of that team? Is it is it managing this the Shopify Planet app?
David Vranicar
Yeah, so we have we have a few different um you know kind of pillars to our to our sustainability program. Part of that is is the Shopify Sustainability Fund, which is our that's our vehicle for getting money into climate tech space. We were really eager to help kickstart um technologies that can help reverse climate change and really We want to be a a demand signal uh for for entrepreneurs in that space so that they know, hey, there's there's buyers out there. If if we build cool tools to remove carbon, for example. uh companies like Shotify are gonna be there um to you know to to pay for it. So that's that's a big part of what we do is a sustainability fund. And then and then of course planet and trying to build sustainability into our actual um products, into our software. That's that's another big piece. And that's that's where I, you know, spend spend most of my energy is is with Planet and trying to to give merchants tools um to to do what maybe historically only you know big companies with big sustainability teams could do Um a lot of the a lot of the vision around Planet is let's be the sustainability team for the merchants. Or if the merchant already has a sustainability team, let's be a valuable tool. uh in that toolkit. So um really trying to to level the playing field when it comes to to sustainability, making sure that any brand that's on Shopify that cares about this has avenues to uh you know to to take action.
Kurt Elster
So Shofi Planet's been around uh close to three years now. And when it launched, is it the same? Has it evolved? What's changed?
David Vranicar
Yeah, so I mean the the that core mission of being the sustainability team for merchants, that that hasn't changed. And so the way you know the way Planet works is There are certain data points that that we have that uh are fed into an emissions estimate formula. And so we know based on uh the customer's address, based on the merchant's address or the merchant's warehouse address. um the shipping method, the product weight, there's all these variables that that get plugged into the system and we know roughly the the emissions that are going to be generated by by that delivery. And this is pretty complicated stuff. Like the the mathematics involved and the collating all that data. I've seen the formula. It's it's uh it's Greek to me. I mean there they're data scientists who built that. Uh so it's it's complicated stuff. And we definitely don't want to outsource that work to merchants. And so we are happy to say, hey, we have data scientists, we have the data, we have two decades of experience with shipping in this space. Let let us do this emissions estimate for you. And then on top of that, let us go ahead and get uh you know the carbon credits to to offset the emissions um that that you've generated. So we don't want uh merchants to be spinning the wheels, contacting carbon removal providers or or trying to negotiate prices on carbon credits. We'll do that too. I mean that's that's something that that we're happy to to handle as well. So really like that hasn't changed. We we wanted to to reduce the barriers to entry, to do cool stuff in climate, be the sustainability team for emergence, and um that's something that we we feel we've done. Where the evolution has come, I think is with the ways that we enable our merchants to to make noise about about what they're doing. Because we certainly don't want folks to use Planet, you know, in silence. If they want to, they can. But but uh there's a lot of tools that that we that we give them. uh to make sure that any any shoppers, any customers that come by know know about this climate commitment. So there's a badge, for example, that's been iterated on since since the moment it launched. The the predecessor for Planet that I mentioned, offset, had no badge. So when we launched Planet, we knew we needed a badge. We were really excited about our badge. Um it was one of those things that we we didn't know how much work we had to do until we thought we were done. So We we launched it, got all this feedback about how, you know, hey, we need to customize this. Hey, like this font doesn't match my theme. Uh I wanna I wanna customize this text, et cetera. So we we've just constantly working on badge, constantly improving that. So now, you know, it's it's highly customizable in terms of colors and uh copy. Um just really, really can do a lot of stuff with with the planet badge and put that wherever you want. um on your website.
Kurt Elster
It looks like a a really nifty um like a a widget that says It's like a uh like a dynamic banner. It says carbon neutral shipping in all orders, powered by Shuffli Planet, and it'll tell you how many in weight shipping emissions are removed. Yeah, what it funds and then has like a link to more info, right? Yeah. That's cool. Like I think when you say badge, badge really undersells what you built here.
David Vranicar
Okay. We should get you to do more marketing for us. Yeah, I mean uh amen to all that. That's all stuff that we got from from merchants. You know, like we our our ears are open on on what what they want. And so Yeah, like I the the equivalencies, for example, where hey our stores emitted this much carbon and we've removed it, that's equivalent to you know X miles of of uh gas new powered car driven or or X number of of uh smartphone charges or whatever. I mean that that's that's really powerful stuff and and we're we're thrilled to have gotten that feedback and so we can incorporate that into into the product. And then in addition to the the badge or the widget or that the dynamic banner. We also have no assets that merchants can use just to do straight-up bargaining of their efforts. And so this we have images. uh of the companies that do the carbon removal for planet users. Um uh videos that kind of like vignettes, I think is the industry term, like little little profiles of these companies as well. So that When a merchant says, hey, we do carbon neutral shipping, um, there's really some meat on the bone there where it's like it's not some opaque, mm-hmm okay, this claim is being made, we're not we're not exactly sure what it means, but No, like we record no shipping and these are the companies that that execute it for us. Uh this is how the money is being spent. Um and it's not like a wall of text. It's it's uh it's again, it's videos, it's images. And then in in Q4 of last year, we launched a modal um so that if uh that learn more link that you they or more info link that you just mentioned, um if a if a merchant wants, that can trigger an overlay that um that will the uh displays a video, displays images, it displays stats where uh a a customer can consume all that right on the page without getting you know kicked to a new tab or or you know sent to a different page. So that's That's these sort of things are where a lot of the evolutionists come with with saying, hey, this this static badge that said powered by Shopify wasn't enough. So we added all the bells and whistles that you just mentioned. Um the planet logo wasn't enough, so we added all these marketing assets. The the impact page wasn't enough, so we we you know we did the modal and videos and and really always trying to to make sure that um our our merchants can can communicate what they're doing um however they want to.
Kurt Elster
And I it sounds to me like this is all to battle greenwashing. Like there's an interesting thing where if you engage in sustainability, the people who are most invested in sustainability will often attack you for not having a perfect solution, for being like, well, that's not enough. You're not doing enough. Because you didn't tell that story. You didn't justify it. enough to satisfy them. It it sounds to me like this a lot of that this this is what it does is to prove that hey this is l this is genuine, this is legitimate. I don't understand or see is how it works, right? It's an app. How does an app remove emissions?
David Vranicar
You're getting some meat on the bone of Of what's happening behind this claim is like that, that is what it's all about. And in corroborating what's going on. Because I mean, it is, it is wildly easy to say we do carbon neutral shipping. I mean, you could just put a you know, an announcement banner on your store that says we do carbon shipping. I mean I certainly wouldn't encourage deceptive. Don't do it. Yeah, I mean you shouldn't do this. Don't do this.
Kurt Elster
Uh but but you can't what's to stop you? You're right.
David Vranicar
What's to stop you? And then there's and there's I mean there's really snazzy apps that are just badges and you can you can like just fill in the badge and you know if and you can say carbon to shipping and then put a sh uh truck icon and like You're good to go.
Kurt Elster
And so that's I guess. When we say greenwashing, that's what we mean.
David Vranicar
Exactly. You And you know, that's not what plant's about. And so we really do want to combat this this notion that like we don't want somebody to get punished. or or to type raise skepticism for doing something that is ultimately good. And and and we know we're we're on the, you know, behind the curtains of of planet. And so we know like, hey, this emissions estimate is has been scrutinized, spilled by data scientists. It's using 20 years worth of Shopify data. Like that that is is a you know industry standard uh emissions estimate. And we also know that the the companies that are providing credits to offset the emissions that our our uh merchants are generating. Um, they're also the best of the best. I mean we we actually use them uh to to neutralize our corporate footprint ourselves. It's it's the same the same pool of companies. And so We we are like proud and uh we're proud of of the way that this is executed. There's no like wink wink uh you know card reserve shipping here. It's it's like It's we partner with the best companies, we have the best data, and and we welcome the spotlight. Like the this the scrutiny that you're talking about is real and and there is there is skepticism around this and like We we want to to welcome that and and combat it with with these tools.
Kurt Elster
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David Vranicar
There's a few different ways that um that the carbon emitted from a shipment gets removed. And so Part of that happens through what are called nature-based solutions. And nature-based solutions are methods to accelerate Carbon sequestration that's happening naturally. So you see this with forests, for example, where re-replanting a forest, forests, of course, uh, you know, take take carbon out of the air and We want more forests and and denser forests and protected forests. And so that that's an example of a nature-based solution. Soil sequestrations, another example where uh there's a lot of carbon that's stored. underground, like you know, underneath grass and in roots, and um with regenerative agriculture practices, there's a lot of ways to to accelerate the rate at which um soil can hold and and you know keep keep carbon out of the atmosphere. And so so that's part of it. So we have the emissions estimate. from from the shipment. And then we would take a a sliver, either a sliver of revenue from from that um order, or if if the merchant wants to, they can have their their customer. Flip the bill for the carbon to shipping. Or or they can combine those two where it's the merchants paying and the customers like uh adding yet additional funding, whatever the the variation is. We would take the the money that's generated by Planet. And then go buy carbon credits from uh from a company that's doing, for example, nature-based carbon removal. So so some of it is is happening via these natural processes. And then depending on your subscription plan, you might also be funding what's called engineered carbon removal. And engineered carbon removal is As the name suggests, it's kind of futuristic sort of sort of stuff that's happening when it comes to to getting carbon out of the skies. So for example, um there's a company up in Iceland that we work with, Kleinworks. that that provides carbon credits for planet users. They have uh just huge uh huge facilities with massive fans that um sponge carbon out of the sky and then it's it's buried directly uh into you know Icelandic rock and it's it's gonna stay in that rock for the next you know thousand plus years. Um there's another company that that we work with uh on planet charm. They they take agricultural waste that would otherwise uh you know biodegrade and release all of its carbon and they turn it into a bio oil. That's been pumped back underground. So they're taking this oil and putting it, you know, they're reversing the process. Instead of extracting oil and burning it, they're taking uh what would otherwise go into the atmosphere and putting it back underground. Um so there's Uh and then yeah, another another company that that works with Planets 4401. Their facilities are based in Oman, where there's a very specific type of rock. that is perfect for storing carbon. And so um they are they're taking carbon um that's been captured and then blasting it into this this rock where it's going to stay for, you know. the next thousand or ten thousand years. Um and so the the methods of carbon removal are are varied. We w we we want to We're like an uh a shots on goal sort of mentality here. We we we would think all these solutions need to scale. The bio oil, the direct air capture happening up in Iceland. It all needs to work, it all needs to grow. And so we're using Planet as a way to let Shopify merchants and their customers catalyze this innovation that's happening in all these different verticals.
Kurt Elster
So essentially I as a merchant or customer, I opt into Shopify Planet. That generates revenue that goes into a fund that is earmarked for investment in these carbon removable, sustainable technologies and initiatives, right? Yes. Yeah. And then we spread that it like a portfolio. We don't just hedge our bet on a single thing. We spread that across a variety of initiatives. That's pretty cool.
David Vranicar
Yeah. In a way it's simple. We just we we have the submissions total and then we go get a corresponding amount of of credits. Like that That much is i it in and the the credits would represent whatever the amount is that was that was emitted. So like that, you know, in a way it's it's it's simple. But then you know when you get to the mechanics of it, okay, how do we get the emissions total? How do we negotiate the contracts with the providers? Uh how do we get the money transferred and all that stuff? That's where it gets complicated. That's where we're really happy to kind of take that off the merchant's plate and handle that for them.
Kurt Elster
And then is there I assume there's is a step to verify that these folks do what they say they're going to do.
David Vranicar
Yeah, for sure. So we um I mean part of that happens before before uh a partner would join Planet. So we and we we vet these companies uh as I mentioned we work with them ourselves to to neutralize our our corporate footprint. So They've been scrutinized, you know, before they've ever gotten close to planet. And then once um you know, once one of these carbon renewal partners is in planet and we're you know allocating merchants and merchant customer money to them, definitely like there needs to be uh verification happening. And so we have Within the app, there's links to what are called registries where the uh the the planet associated credits have been retired. Um and so you can just you can just say, okay, this this bundle of credits came from grassroots carbon, which does soil sequestration. Then you can go look at the registry that where where those specific credits have been retired. Um and so we do want to have that paper trail, or in this case, this link trail, where merchants can go say, hey, like look, they can actually just look at at the uh the retirement
Kurt Elster
And okay. If I want to use Shopify Planet. Who pays for it? What does it cost?
David Vranicar
Here. So if you if you don't want to pay for it as a merchant, you could use it uh and and not pay anything. In that case, you'd be outsourcing the cost to your to your customer. And so the way that works is uh you know you you select the the customer pays plan. Um and then you would have like the the badge that you have for that particular uh subscription plan contains a checkbox um where the the it says well it says whatever you want to say but the default is uh you know neutralized carbon emissions for this order customer clicks that they're gonna pay uh 25 cents USD or fifty cents USD we're testing that that quantity right now. But they'll pay fifty cents or less Um and then and then the carbon removal will happen uh with that money. And and so the we'll just that will be uh billed at the end of the billing cycle, just like you know any any app billing, but it wouldn't be anything coming like out of pocket from the merchant. It's all these these uh additional payments that have come from the customer. So so it is possible to use planet into into neutralized missions for those orders um without without paying anything. If if a merchant wants to pay, there's different different uh subscription plans for that. The decade plan, for example costs an average of three and a half to four cents per order. Now if if a merchant sells like bowling balls or rocks or something, then then it'll be a little bit higher because the the weight of a product.
Kurt Elster
You sell it barbells?
David Vranicar
Yeah, exactly. Like that that that's a a little bit heftier because uh you know weight's one of the variables that informs how much uh carbon gets emitted. Um so but but anyway, Shopify wide average is like three and a half, four cents per order. Um and um yeah, it's in and then we would just keep track of of the the estimated emissions from all those orders and then at the end of each each billing cycle. Just extract whatever whatever amount is needed to cover um to cover those emissions. And then you can pay um more with the century or millennium plans to to also fund the engineered solutions that we talked about. So with the decade plan Um you're finding the nature-based solutions, the the forestry, the the soil sequestration, those sort of natural processes. And then with uh the other subscription plans, the century and the millennium, um, which cost an average of eight and fifteen cents per order respectively between those two. Um you're gonna be funding the nature-based solutions as well as um the the engineered credits that that do the the wilder stuff, the the bioil, the direct air capture. And all that. So the the the nature-based solution is important to all these subscription plans because that's how we can get the carbon removed today. And there's a lot of you know future-facing technologies that um are are not at scale yet. And and that's where any money on top of the uh the nature-based credits is is getting allocated. So you can simultaneously, you know With a stray face, say, hey, this is a carbon neutral shipment because we've we've got the the credit for this project that's already up and running today. And in addition, we've funded uh we have funded carbon removal. that's going to be coming online in the next next few years um with these engineered solutions. Does that make sense? I mean it it there's there's some inside basel here. I don't know if nature-based and engineered if that's just Pure jardin. Okay, okay. Right.
Kurt Elster
Well I'm I'm following.
David Vranicar
Okay, good.
Kurt Elster
And so I want to know how difficult is this to set up? You know it Any app, they're varying levels. Some are like, I could do it with my eyes closed. Others, I'm tearing my hair out by the end of the day. Where does Planet Fall?
David Vranicar
It's closer to the it's closer to the ice closed side.
Kurt Elster
I mean plug and play.
David Vranicar
It's closer to the ice closed side. You pick your plan. So you say, I want to pay, or I want my customers to pay, or we're both going to pay. Like we're going to be in this together. And Once you make that choice and hit save, then then it's live. At that point the the emissions estimates are gonna be running and like the the infrastructure is set up So it's like so yeah at that point you're you're up and running and then and then you would want to keep going though I would say to do like the the badge to to maybe leverage these marketing assets and then So there's extra, you know, there's additional steps to take, but that's just a matter of of you know using the online store editor, placing, placing your badge and uh you know and inserting it where you want to. So we have a cut common spot for the uh For the like if the merchant's paying, then you know go to the product page uh and just include this element uh you know from the apps drop down and like There it is. And then in in the sidebar, you can customize it. So if you want to have if you want to say which which innovations you fund or if you want to say how much carbon your store has removed. you know you're you're selecting that from from the the editor on the side um the the the text box is there too if you want to customize that and so to get up and running is is really super simple it's probably like a Yeah, 90 second endeavor. And then of of course the there's the details where where you wanna you want to make sure that the the wording is correct, that the placement's correct with the badge. So um it's not nothing, but it it is legitimately is legitimately simple. There's not data input that you have to do.
Kurt Elster
It's not technical. It's yeah. I'm using the theme editor. You know, I'm not editing code, I'm not doing some technical setup, I'm not messing with API keys. I plug it in and that configure it the way I want. You It sounds like it's it's quite configurable and and dynamic in its um its displays. And then in the theme editor, you know the theme editor I know and love, I add my app lock where I want it. Sounds like I put a product page. Probably a cart page, um, and then you know drag or drop as we see fit.
David Vranicar
Exactly. I mean it it's it's uh what you see is what you get editing process. So yeah, there's no code. I should I should have clarified that. I I get I get a little bit you know shaky when when there's code.
Kurt Elster
Very close to it. That's that's what's tough.
David Vranicar
Yeah. But the um yeah, it's it's it's all nest order, so you're just you're just editing it and you see what's changing in real time and once you save, you're you're ready to go.
Kurt Elster
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David Vranicar
Yeah. So we we have data that shows a conversion uplift for merchants who have installed Planet, like a before-after conversion uplift. What's exciting about that is that it is corroborated both by survey data and by other apps in this space. So, you know, on the survey front, um we we did a survey ourselves. uh a consumer survey that showed that forty plus percent of consumers are more likely to buy from brands that have sustainability practices like carbon digital shipping. And so So there's there's a an eagerness, at least you know, on the survey front, um, from consumers to say, hey, I I'm more likely to buy from a brand that that shows that they care. Um that was our server data. There was also a Price Waterhouse Cooper uh voice of the consumer survey that came out last year. Pretty exhaustive uh surveys, very interesting. And one of the the stats in there that I thought was was very cool was that Consumers are willing to spend nine point seven percent more uh for products that are sustainable. So it's so like there's like a ten percent premium that consumers say they're willing to pay um for for products where there is this this element of of sustainability and pay more for you know two brands that um that are doing this. And so so that's what they say in the surveys. And I know like surveys are are cheap. Like you can see you can say whatever you want. It's like those it's like those badges that you just you know launch with with no you know because Yeah, surveys are uh it's just talk. But what we're seeing, as I mentioned, we are seeing a conversion increase uh for for brands that had this installed. as are other apps in this space. Uh you you see that if you just browse, you know, browse the uh the different apps that do, you know, plant trees or or this or that. They all talk about, you know, plus six 16% conversion rate, plus 21% uh average cart value, etc. And so that's That's a real thing that that we're seeing in in the kind of anecdotal survey, but then also um with with uh the data bearing that out.
Kurt Elster
So there there is a positive halo effect on the sales funnel that's added by Shopify Planet and potentially similar solutions.
David Vranicar
Yes. Yeah, there there are. There is. And then there's also stuff that I I would suspect is happening outside of the the measurable funnel. Um that's also good. Uh you know, if you extend the halo, right? If if uh Because I I think you asked if like, or is it just something that people do to feel good versus an actual conversion increase? There is a conversion element, but then feeling good's great too. And then I think if a if a buyer is is kind of you know satisfied with their purchase. Maybe they're more more likely to write a review if you hit them up for a review later, or they're more likely to refer you and you know or to refer a younger.
Kurt Elster
Potentially more word of mouth. From this initiative is what we're thinking.
David Vranicar
Yeah. Which is something that we're not able to to cleanly measure. And so I I think I think that the I mean the data shows that there is an uplift. And even outside of what we see in the data, uh, I I think there's there's the potential for knock-on effects, especially if it's if it's aggressively not aggressively, but uh let's say let's say uh assertively marketed by the the merchant who's using the app. You put it in your uh in your order confirmation. It put you can put something in the package that you're sending. You know, say that it's it's shipped carbon neutral. You can get you know stickers that say this slap one on on the box. I mean I think there's a lot of ways where okay you have the app installed and you you put the you put the widget on the the product page like that's that's good but there's you know a lot of additional steps that you could take um to really milk milk what you're doing. Not in a nefarious way. Like this is it it's it's uh like I said there's no wink wink thing going on here. It's it's uh you're doing something good and you want to make noise about it.
Kurt Elster
Yeah. And you you you cite your sources and bring receipts. Yeah. That is what is so attractive about this.
David Vranicar
Um and that's eager and that's something where we we are happy to to be the one, you know Uh standing behind these claims. Uh i if if a if a merchant wants to enlist Shopify here and say Hey, like this this massive this massive uh you know uh software companies is is the one running this. Feel free. You know, that's the I think I think a lot of merchants don't want us involved because cause they want to make sure that they get the the credit, which is also cool. Like It's a the the everything's dynamic, so you can use it however you want, but if if there's any sense that that you know uh enlisting our name or your name dropping Shopify would be beneficial to kind of make it uh you know make it more trustworthy, then you know by all means.
Kurt Elster
Let me play devil's advocate. I've suggestions to a few clients. I'm like, hey, you you could you should consider this. You know, maybe you want to try it, maybe run it for a month, let's see what it does, if it has you know any positive impact or feedback. And so people will say, well, I I don't know if my customers care. You know, that always frustrates me because, well, we you're right. We don't know if they care because you haven't tried it. And so you know what's what's the harm in trying it? But you know what would you what would you say to that?
David Vranicar
I mean one thing that comes to mind is they probably don't mind it. I I I I I wouldn't see a big objection. Um and so I think I think that there's ways to kind of uh very safely like tiptoe into these waters uh if you're if you're uh queasy about it. And you know, like if if you if you're concerned about the paying too much Then you could you could say, okay, let's have the customer pays option on. Or or let's set our billing cap kind of low to make sure that that everything's everything's uh you know, nice and tidy on the billing front. But then also um yeah, just just pub you know publish the the badge and and see for yourself. Um and and I and we have seen like some wild conversion rates on the the uh customer facing option to to pay like conversion rates north of twenty percent on on buyers, uh customers adding this this like roundup to their to their order, which I mean for I I was not expecting 20 plus percent conversion rates there.
Kurt Elster
There was one So we're referring to when we let people choose it when they can opt into it or not, or say th there are times where w one in five people will say, yes, I'm willing to pay a little more for that.
David Vranicar
Yeah, exactly. And and it's it's it's sort of thing that's not it's not uh an in your face uh you know distracting thing on on the way to checkout. So I think somebody who doesn't care with C with you know they might just gloss over it and say, okay, I'm not doing that. I'm I'm done with this order. Let's let's get to it. And and somebody who does care, uh, they're gonna they they are gonna go ahead and and add you know add that uh that extra amount. And we there was there was one store that changed the amount of the of the customer contribution. From twenty-five cents to to ten dollars. It was a luxury item store. So so the the the base cost was higher. Uh and so I I think the the logic was hey twenty-five cents is almost comically low here.
Kurt Elster
So let's become that may as well pricing.
David Vranicar
May is yeah, exactly. Um yeah, but they you know 40 X it to $10 and they still had a 15 plus percent conversion rate on that. So Customers willing to spend an extra ten bucks just for that, um, is I you know, that's that's kind of like uh That's something. It kind of depends on the store and maybe on the marketing and the sort of the sort of shoppers that a that a brand is trying to attract. Like there there's certainly variability there. Um But uh I I do think it's it's It's low risk to to try it out. It it's something that you can try out for for a month or two without um without really downside, I would say.
Kurt Elster
I I agree with you. And I wish more people would would give it a shot. Um I want to know in the the three years that you've been working on this, what's well, probably more than that. What's been the the biggest hurdle or what's been challenging about it?
David Vranicar
The app store is a crowded sp crowded space. Tell me about it. Yeah, it's it's noisy over there. And Nobody goes there looking for carbon or or for yeah, I don't know. I I I there there are there are some sustainability searches, but like it's it's just not It's not the uh the search term that people are are dropping into the uh the app store. And so so we do just have a visibility problem where where I think that I think there's a an acknowledgement that like, oh, this is interesting. Like w when folks see it, but there's not there's the it it's it's sometimes tricky to get it in front of to get in front of the uh the merchant in the first place. And so so I think part of it part of it is is awareness. And then there's also I mean an omen of of needing to meet ever-changing expectations on what the uh on what the app delivers. And a lot of it has to do with what you were talking about earlier in terms of verifying that this is legitimate and making it trustworthy and making it marketable and making it something that's that's cool in a in a In a a very like meaningful way, as opposed to just uh, you know, I I feel a little bit guilty, so I do this thing, but you know, uh so so you know all the all the evolution I talked about regarding the badge. uh the the like ever expanding portfolio of marketing assets that we have in there, the video, the modal, et cetera, that you know, making sure that we're always meeting the the bar for what constitutes enough and that bar is always moving. Um that that's been another challenge. And that's that's one again we're we're really happy to to take cues from uh you know from from merchants and and always eagerly to get that feedback make sure that that they have you know what they feel they need on on that front
Kurt Elster
What do you think how do you see it evolving? Right? You really built something quite uh exceptional in a a fairly short time. In the next five years, what's it gonna look like?
David Vranicar
We we want to have, you know, the the biggest the biggest possible impact we we can here. And so I think um you know, getting just getting more and more merchants on board and and really uh proving you know proving the business value. Hi you know, highlighting the fact that that very big brands are are doing this. Um, you know, Mr. Beast, for example, uses Planet. uh yeah mentioned that we we really do have a lot of a lot of plus merchants. Um the genius lab gear uh Derek Miller the founder of that was on on your podcast uh a year or two ago like he was quite insistent
Kurt Elster
He was like you gotta he's like I love Shopfi Planet. I trust but verify he was like I wreath looked into it, I researched it, thrilled with it. And part of it is his audience, you know, he's selling largely to research scientists who if this was important to them.
David Vranicar
You know, give it give a thumbs up on that.
Kurt Elster
Yeah, he was like when you gonna do he's like I'll send you the intro, you you gotta do a shop by planet episode. I was like, you know what, Derek? Deal.
David Vranicar
You Yeah, it works it works for us too. I mean it help helps with the awareness problem that I that I mentioned earlier. Um but no, I mean we w we're we're not restricted geographically, we're not restricted on on vertical. I mean we we uh so we just want to grow this thing and you know right now um We have had forty-six million plus orders covered by planet. So so the the carbon emissions from forty-six million orders have been removed. Uh and that is that has equated to more than 34,000 tons of carbon um on behalf of planet users. Yeah, it's it's still a a relatively small user base. Um but just to put that in perspective, a a mature tree, like a big tree. Can absorb about 22 kilograms of carbon per year. And so it would take 1. 5 million mature trees to absorb as much carbon as as planet users have offset. And so Like that that's awesome.
Kurt Elster
I said how proud must you be?
David Vranicar
It's it's very cool. It's it's uh it's it's very cool stuff to work on and and you know getting to do Stuff that's impactful on climate within the confines of this this awesome company that does all this awesome stuff for you know for merchants and for entrepreneurs. Um it's uh it's a cool meal to be able to thread and and certainly The more we can drive up those numbers, uh yeah, the the the cooler it is.
Kurt Elster
So let's all right, let's wrap this up here. We've got in the the app store, any merchant can search for Shopify Planet and install it. Easy to configure, no code, you know not technical. I choose my options where you know I could choose to pay Or I can have the customer opt-in to pay, even at that's low risk, where you know the we let the customer pick, and even then we're gonna see f potentially fairly high opt-in rates, you know, some stores fifteen, twenty percent. Um depending on the audience and the average order value, it seems. The and no risk of being accused of greenwashing with how well documented it is. You You've got, you know, cite your sources and and bring your receipts. What am I missing? Like where's the downside?
David Vranicar
I don't know. I mean, I I I'm the wrong person to ask. I I I I I drink the Kool-Aid, so uh I you know I I uh I mean th there there is there is a cost if if uh if a if a merchant wants to to pay themselves like that that is a cost. And I think you know one of the one of the ways that I uh you know kind of conceive of that or or think about that is that it's uh it's a form of marketing. And so you so you might be paying the three and a half cents per order, and then that can add up, you know, uh especially for for a big merchant. Um, so it's not it can be free, but it's not always free. And so if if it's not free, like I guess that's a downside. But I do I do think that that it's you know marketing isn't isn't usually free. And and and this is a this is a form of of marketing that could really go a long way in terms of brand affinity and and you know repeat purchases and making customers feel good a about their purchase. And so I guess that you know that that's a downside. I'll I'll concede that you know paying money is not is not always you know eating into margins is not fun, but um you know there's there's certainly the benefit to it.
Kurt Elster
The benefit to him. It's not measurable in the same way, you know, that something where we could get you know figure out our return on ad spend is. Yeah. And I think that's probably what people are getting hung up on and they shouldn't you know sometimes benefits can be squishy. We don't Everyone says, I gotta make data-driven decisions. But like realistically, most people aren't making data-driven decisions. Sometimes you can just try things, see what happens. I would in the case of Shopify Planet, really, I would Encourage people to just try it and see, you know, what the feedback is, see how many people uh respond to it. Because it it's low risk, it's easy to set up, and if you change your mind, it's easy to undo. I mean I'm I'm just not seeing seeing the issue here. I wish more people would check it out.
David Vranicar
Hey. You're not the only one. But yeah, it definitely I mean uh it it is very low risk. We were we're definitely happy to uh answer questions. I mean plan it at Shopify. com is the email address. So that it's an easy one to remember if it was anything you, you know, if you install it and you're curious about this or that, or you you know you have questions, like we're We're happy to wrap. We love this stuff. So feel free to reach out if you do install it. But um for sure, give it a whirl. That's you know apps. shopfry. com slash planet. That's that's the uh That's the URL. So uh certainly uh it's it's waiting for you. No matter where you are, what language your store is, we we'd love to love to welcome you on board.
Kurt Elster
And I'll include those links in the show notes for everybody's convenience. I gotta I gotta go try it. I gotta encourage people to use this thing. David Vranikar, thank you so much.
David Vranicar
Thank you, Kurt. Really appreciate the chance to chat.
Kurt Elster
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