From Shark Tank Fail to Fashion Trailblazers
Vicky Pasche, a Shark Tank alum and co-founder of Dapper Boi, reveals how a personal quest for authenticity led to the creation of a groundbreaking apparel line.
Dapper Boi's innovative apparel line challenges traditional fashion norms by offering all-gender, size-inclusive clothing. Vicky discusses her journey from personal struggle to entrepreneurial success, touching on the brand's origins, its pivotal appearance on Shark Tank, and its commitment to fostering inclusivity in fashion. Explore how Dapper Boi has navigated industry challenges and cultivated a loyal customer base through a distinct business model that emphasizes authenticity and body positivity. Join us to understand the impact of socially conscious entrepreneurship in the rapidly evolving fashion industry.
Tune in to this inspiring episode to grasp how passion and perseverance can revolutionize an industry. Subscribe for more stories of innovation and transformation in the ecommerce world.
Kurt Elster (00:17):
Hello and welcome back to the Unofficial Shopify podcast, my friends, I'm your host, Kurt Elster, Jack Nasty, and today we are going to talk to an apparel brand and apparel's big fashion and apparel. It's a big vertical and category on Shopify, but our guest today a Shark Tank alum. Okay, not that many Shark Tank alums out there. There's a finite number that's always fun. I want to hear about that. But more importantly, someone who has, there's a cause, a mission behind their brand. We know that makes things more successful, a painter problem in their own life that resulted in the brand starting. That seems to be like the cornerstone of all of these really successful entrepreneurial missions. So I want to hear about that. But also they chose to try and redefine their category a little bit. That's really tough. But I mean, they've been at this years now, and so it seems like they're succeeding. I want to hear how they did it and at this point, hindsight's 2020, what they learned. And so joining us today is Vicki Pasha from Dapper Boy. Oh my gosh, Vicki, how you doing? Welcome,
Vicky Pasche (01:26):
Kurt. I am so genuinely stoked to be here on your show. I'm excited. So let's do this and dive right in.
Kurt Elster (01:35):
I'm thrilled. All right, let's start with your brand is Dapper Boy, spelled BOI. What is Dapper Boy?
Vicky Pasche (01:43):
Yeah, so Dapper Boy is an all gender size inclusive apparel line with a mission to inspire folks to find their confidence through authenticity in our clothing. It started back in 2015 with my own personal struggle shopping in the men's department. Actually, I had come out of the closet and chopped off my hair and I knew I always wanted to shop in the men's department, but I was so afraid the world was going to judge me for that. But I'll never forget trying on my very first pair of gender, or not gender neutral, it wasn't gender neutral at that time, men's jeans, it, old Navy in particular. And it was everything I wanted it to be, but those clothes just never fit my body. And so fast forward to 2015 and we started our line with our very first pair of gender inclusive jeans.
Kurt Elster (02:30):
Alright, so we'd say all gender, gender inclusive. Do we apply the unisex label here or is that different?
Vicky Pasche (02:38):
Well, it is technically the same. We're just trying to find a way, and it's changed throughout the years here to really welcome all people and not to dive into deep quite yet, but I think men in particular when shopping, I think the words gender, gender in particular is sometimes very triggering for people. I think people categorize us immediately as that lesbian brand and get nervous about that. But the thing is, we are all about body type and style preference and that is it. We've been embedded with this thought process that and women's, that's it. You walk into a department store, you got two choices, the men's section and the women's section, which are embedded with these societal rules and norms based on your gender. We're trying to break that. Again, this is about style, preference and body type. I just so happen to be a lesbian.
Kurt Elster (03:31):
Don't even know. I dunno what to do with that. I right. Yeah. And I suppose that's the issue you run into are people are like, how am I supposed to feel?
Vicky Pasche (03:42):
Exactly. It's funny though. It did start, it started with women that looked like myself, and that's what gave me that confidence to start the brand because there were women like myself that had the same problem. But it turns out, after we launched this pair of jeans on Kickstarter back in 2015, it was so much more than people that looked like me. People from all walks of life, trans folks, men with curves, women that hate the chest gap with button up shirts. We solve all of these problems. Our jeans, for example, have deep pockets. It shouldn't be revolutionary to have functional deep pockets, but here we are still 20, 24 with the same problems,
Kurt Elster (04:25):
The tiny pockets on women's jeans that does, that blows my mind because my pockets, I could well stick my hand in and they'll stop about my elbow. It's like I could stick my hand in my pockets and scratch my ankles, pull my socks up, and then my wife's is like, alright, if I fold that business card in half, I could get that in my front pocket.
Vicky Pasche (04:45):
Exactly, exactly. Why
Kurt Elster (04:46):
Would you design pockets like that? You guys know how big an iPhone is, right? What are you doing?
Vicky Pasche (04:52):
Yes. We even added, there's that little, it's actually made for pocket watches. There's a tiny little pocket within your pocket and jeans,
Kurt Elster (05:00):
That's what that's supposed to be for.
Vicky Pasche (05:03):
It was for pocket watches back in, I don't know how long ago now. But yeah, it just kind of stuck and it's kind of pointless. People call it now the coin pocket I've heard, but we actually made that the size of a large smartphone, so you could actually put a phone in that tiny pocket and still have your large pocket. When we're thinking through details of all of our clothes, there's always a functional aspect of it, whether it's comfort, stretch, the pockets, our button ups have this hidden snap behind the chest plat to prevent chest gap that you see in both men's and women's button up shirts. So yeah, that's what is kind of unique about us and also our size range. It's really hard to find a mainstream store with such a large size range. I personally am a plus size person. If I go to Macy's today, I can't fit in the top size, although it's still baggy in my shoulders everywhere, but I can only go to my chest beat and let it out. It's a style of my booty. If I go to the men's plus size section, it's like the worst styles on the smallest size and it's down to my knees. So literally today there's still no place that fits me like my own brand. Crazy.
Kurt Elster (06:13):
Again, it's like you've got this problem, you're like, I got to solve this, and I bet there's other people like me who feel that too. And sure enough, you've been at it for almost 10 years. That means, yeah, there are definitely other people like you out there who saw the same pain problem and need. Tell me about you. Co-founded this with your wife, right?
Vicky Pasche (06:36):
Yes. Yep. My wife, Cherise is the co-founder. We started the brand together. It was again back in 2015 and I was working in the casino industry, believe it or not, in management. During that time I was the head of the marketing department and had this vision for this brand and we downsized from this four bedroom condo to a 600 square foot beach shack to make this dream a reality. And Cherise was still working full time, but she was working nights and weekends with the brand for a few years until we were able to grow. And her coming on full time is wild.
Kurt Elster (07:13):
I'm always fascinated when a married couple runs a business together because at times it could be hard enough to be married. It has its own strife and issues, and now add a business into it, add an entrepreneurial venture, and there's just a lot of extra stress that has come along here. How do you balance your roles? How has that experience been for you?
Vicky Pasche (07:36):
Yeah, it's interesting. We actually talked about, I had the conversation with my wife Cherise on our honeymoon, and she always jokes with people that usually people conceive their first child. Well, we conceived our business Dapper Boy on this honeymoon, and I think in the beginning for us it was me mostly running the brand. And so when she came into it full time, I had already established my own position and where we needed assistance from her and she came in. We just luckily worked together well. Our relationship started actually in a business, a different business. So we already have had that kind of, that was our partnership. I don't recommend it for everyone. Of course it can be stressful and we bring it home, we're talking about it at night, but it happens to work. And we're both Leos August 4th and fifth, which is even more feisty in our household for sure.
(08:33):
But it happens to work and we work really well together. But I would say date nights are essential and taken for granted for sure. And we've kind of just started talking about this. Sometimes we have to shut the business off sometimes in just our conversations we do when it comes to our kids, but then at nighttime when they're in bed, we're back to talking about Dapper Boy and we need to do a better job of like, okay, let's just talk about our relationship and keeping that at the forefront. And that helps. Whenever we have a date night, it's like that rejuvenation of this is who we are and now getting back to the business.
Kurt Elster (09:11):
Yeah, I think setting some boundaries around it helps. A previous guest said, oh, when they're running it out of their house entirely, it was problematic once. It was like they had a separate space that helped and then they said the dinner table, it is forbidden to discuss business.
Vicky Pasche (09:26):
That's a great idea. We should take that on. Good advice. Thank you.
Kurt Elster (09:31):
The DATETIME thing is important too, just in general in a relationship, just like you are committing to spend quality time with each other, reflecting back early on, what was the big challenge in getting Dapper Boy off the ground nine years ago?
Vicky Pasche (09:47):
Yeah, I would say we didn't have a fashion background, so we had to just figure everything out and it was exactly the way it was supposed to be, even though it was the hardest of times. But I would say launching our campaign, how are we going to find people beyond friends and family? And so I know for us, and this was during the time I think I read the articles by Tim Ferris and successfully launching a Kickstarter brand. And what we had done was we reached out to friends and family first and we said, Hey everybody, we're going to do this crazy flash mob post. We're launching this brand. We reached out to anybody and everybody that we knew and they had to agree. I think there was an app at this time, I don't think that app exists anymore, but literally we wrote the Facebook post along with the picture and everything to go along with, I think it was a video actually at that time, and everybody just opted in to agree.
(10:39):
So it was like this huge flash mob post that went out to hundreds of people all at one time and it worked and we were off to the races. And I think for us it was like we had to figure out not to be shy about communicating via email, all of those things. And it worked. But I would say challenges is honestly was getting our first pair of jeans and having people believe in what we were doing. We were reaching out to manufacturers that were saying, do you even know what you're talking about? And they would hang up on us and there's minimums and things. At that point, we had no idea about any of these conversations, but luckily one manufacturer was like, Hey, I think you're really onto something. I'd like to hook you up with my pattern maker. And we just started this sampling process, which took us six months for our very first sample of genes because they were just really off. They were either very feminine or very masculine. We were really putting together the best of these two worlds. And so it took quite some time. And plus not having that background and the language at that point also took quite a bit of time too. But again, all of these lessons were so essential because we are so proud, say that we've built this business completely from the ground up and we've learned every mistake in the book for sure.
Kurt Elster (12:01):
So with that initial Kickstarter, so I googled, I found it 223 backers pledged $26,364 to the project. And you could see samples of the genes. At this time they're described as premium androgynous genes. And with our Kickstarter, you used a service or an app. I've seen this where everyone opts in and then at a specified time, everybody posts the same thing all at once. And so it gives you a good chance to make an impact and maybe look like it's trending.
Vicky Pasche (12:39):
That was so helpful and really that's what grabbed people's attention. I think from there, what was very helpful was our video because it was very immediately we're like solving a problem. It's very relatable and I think people just found us approachable and friendly, and we've heard throughout the years here that people just want to be our friends. You just feel like you know us instantly. And that is something we're very proud of too. So I'm a believer, especially coming from a marketing background, that marketing is everything. It's how we relate, it's how we feel when we see products. And so that was so huge for me without having any money. That was something that we invested in, was a great video pictures, just using these two samples that we had in these two sides is everywhere. Trying to get our friends to fit in it. And then we were just constantly posting. It was just like social media are us at that point posting these wild videos with our friends and people just getting in on board with that, which was awesome. So yeah, to get that many backers, I remember a significant moment was we raised 10,000 in 10 days and Cherise and I were so stoked that we believe that this mission and what we were doing was real and that we were going places
Kurt Elster (13:56):
From there. You finish the Kickstarter, what's next? You've got a Shopify store, you get on Shark Tank, but that moment of like, alright, we got the money, now we have to deliver and it's addictive. Hey, I want to keep this going. Where do you go from there?
Vicky Pasche (14:12):
We had to figure it out because we ran out of money quickly. We didn't raise enough money we raised for the production, but then what? Now the genes were gone and now what we're going to do? How are we going to fund something else? We were like, should we do another Kickstarter campaign? And we didn't really love the process with the rewards and just adds a level of complexity and things. So we decided to go to Shopify, launch our own store, and this was almost one full year later of Should we keep in business? We're not. And we decided to run that same kind of Kickstarter, pre-order kind of model. And that's how we were going to Boots stop the brand. And actually the next product we launched, which was the first product on our Shopify store, was our button up shirt, which was actually being developed the same time we were developing our jeans. So literally, and I remember this, we had one color button up shirt, we launched it on our Shopify store. We made a video that was instantly relatable, which instantly showed the problem. Do you ever have this problem showing that chess gap right away? And people were just on board. And imagine I've
Kurt Elster (15:14):
Heard Chess Gap, say that again is like this thing we got to solve. I said, I've heard chess gap is this thing we got to solve. Explain chess gap to me in button down shirts.
Vicky Pasche (15:24):
So the button down shirts in between the buttons, especially in the bust area, it stretches there where there's this giant gap and you can see a full on peep show going on. So we added these snaps that closed the gap. Yes, which is like a game changer. People,
Kurt Elster (15:40):
Alright, that's what
Vicky Pasche (15:41):
I thought for both men and women. And so we had launched that campaign on our Shopify store, very first product there, and we did $30,000 in three weeks. So imagine going from no products about to go under had nothing to 30,000 in three weeks. And so what we had done
Kurt Elster (16:00):
Was, and you beat your Kickstarter,
Vicky Pasche (16:02):
Beat the Kickstarter by far within a very short timeframe. And so we at that point were like, okay, we're onto something here. Let's take these two products, these button-ups and these jeans, and we were just going to continue launching new colorways each month. It was like a monthly kind of thing and we would just sell out every time. And I think what was happening is we were creating this community that was just so loyal and ready for the next drop. We were just selling out of products, so we were just launching more and more. But I think the kicker here was that fomo, because we would only launch the minimum production was 300, so we were just trying to get to that three. And so we would say, okay, everybody, you only have three weeks, we're going to give you this intro pricing maybe up to 20 to 30% off.
(16:48):
You have three weeks to get in. So everyone was just waiting for the next drop. They knew they'd get a great price or we would sell out. And so I think we were just creating that, teaching them this way, even though they had to wait six to 12 weeks for their product in the Amazon Prime delivery kind of world. It's not ideal, but people could not find the fit that we had and they were just so loyal. So that's how we were able to scale. I mean I think it was for us by this time, it was like when we were fully on here launching monthly. By 2017, I think it was 2019, we hit $540,000 in sales. 2020, we hit 1,000,020 21, 1 0.2. We were just launching constantly and we developed this full line. It wasn't just jeans and button ups, it was T-shirts that fit.
(17:36):
And it sounds crazy that a simple T-shirt would sell so well, but it's one of our top selling products because today if I were to buy a men's T-shirt, it suctions to all the wrong places on my stomach. The worst spots and the shirts are just too feminine. It's like the scoop necks and the very high sleeves. So again, swimwear, everything, a full everyday line is what we launched. And we were very strategic by our launches too. So we would launch maybe one weekend, it would be a button up, the following would be jeans. The following would be a jacket. So it'd be a complete complimentary look. And people wanted to get the entire look
Kurt Elster (18:10):
As we ring in the new year. Did you know that over 90% of Shopify merchants won't hit their maximum revenue in 2024? That's because they're killing their conversion rates by using outdated landing page designs and default templates. You work hard all year and you deserve to realize your dream of owning a successful store, but without the right tools. It's like running a marathon with lead weights tied to your feet. That's where Zipify Pages comes in. Zipify pages is the game changing landing page builder created by the founder of a 180 million Shopify store. It has everything you need to transform your store into a high converting sales generating machine. Zipify page's, intuitive builder, mobile optimized templates and AI powered features are helping thousands of Shopify stores boost their conversion rates and run more profitable marketing campaigns. Zipify pages improves every page on your Shopify store. Just select a template from their template library and then quickly customize it to match your brand. You can easily create better product pages, landing pages, category pages, even homepage. And because every Zipify template is tested on their 180 million Shopify store, they actually work. So don't let 2024 drift by with unmet revenue goals. Upgrade your store today with Zipify pages and make this your best new year yet. Go to zipify.com/curd to start a free 14 day trial. That's Z-I-P-I-F y.com/kt to try zipify pages for free.
(19:41):
I love that you dripped out one item at a time and then at the end you're like, oh, you got the full outfit. That's fun. Yes. It sounds like you're focused on pre-orders or this launch strategy. Is that still how it operates today?
Vicky Pasche (19:57):
It ist actually. That's not the goal. And so what happened for us was so many other businesses, the Covid delays almost wiped us out in 2022. So again, imagine it was just my wife, myself, two part-time employees, and we were doing over a million a year. And I just want to call out a quick stat here is that only 1.7% of women owned businesses hit over a million dollars in sales a year. And we were doing that and I had no idea at that point that at what point were we ready to or qualify for a conversation with an investor. We didn't know. We thought it would be much more and all these things, but we were doing these crazy stats here with just this tiny team. So the goal was never to do pre-orders forever. It was really just to test the market, making sure that we were foolproof for when we were going to investors.
(20:49):
But then 2022 hit. So 2021, I think our best month was like $185,000. And then we were waiting for these productions to come in and the delays started happening where 2022, I don't think we launched one single new product because people were backed up in campaigns. The delays took place. We had barely inventory to sell, and so we were just trying to keep the lights on. It was such wild times we had to lean out as in any outside contractors that we had during that time, we had to let go of, we raised prices, we had to get real crafty during this time to stay afloat. It was crazy.
Kurt Elster (21:31):
At any point, did you think about giving up or were you like, no, I've seen it works. I know it works. This is temporary, I just have to survive.
Vicky Pasche (21:38):
Yeah, that was exactly it. We knew it was temporary. We even sold our home during this time because again, we knew people were just waiting for the products. I mean, every day people were like, you don't have anything. It wasn't because we didn't have good product or a customer base. I mean our repeat customer is 51%, and so people were just shopping over and over. I think the baseline for shopping by say is like 28%. So it wasn't that we didn't have a good product or customers, it was literally the delays. So for us, it was worth it, especially with this mission that we had. We're trying to be the next Levi's of all gender fashion here. This is what we had, we're very plan A all the way people, if we even focus attention on plan B, then we don't really truly believe in Plan A.
(22:21):
And that's what we always were on the same page with my wife and myself. And so when it came down to it and we were sitting on equity in our home, how could we go to investors and ask for money when we wouldn't be able to invest in ourselves? So we decided to make that move, which really helped us in the long run. But yeah, it was some scary times for sure. There's many tears and many mental exercises that we had to do to just stay with it here, but I wouldn't have it either way at this point.
Kurt Elster (22:57):
Well, yeah, a hundred percent. I'm glad it worked out. What point do you end up on Shark Tank?
Vicky Pasche (23:05):
This was all during 2022. It was the craziest of times. So imagine we're going through the process with Shark Tank with the producers, which was six months of very intense conversations and they knew what we were going through at that point too, but they also saw our potential, the numbers and things like that. The producers were actually very nice. So we were going through at that time, and in addition to that we're part of this documentary called Show Her the Money, and they were also filming us during this hard time as well. And so seeing everything, the conversation about us selling our and all of that. So we were being very vulnerable and it was very hard to do that. And of course when we see this documentary, we get to relive that every time. But yeah, when we went to Shark Tank, I think they say, this is where I read, quote me if I'm wrong here, but like 50,000 people applied to that a year. And so I think I applied the year before they actually reached out. And then we went through that process and it was like six months, but I think they dwindle it down to a hundred that actually film and 80 go to air. So we weren't even sure if our episode was going to air until three weeks before, which was crazy, which is a year ago. And that was April 14th, 2023 that we aired
Kurt Elster (24:31):
Well on Shark Tank. You did not secure a deal.
Vicky Pasche (24:36):
We did not secure a deal. So it was a crazy experience for sure. And I think that there was just the emotions were so heightened, and I will say when you're coming from a place of desperation, nothing good happens. And that day when we went to Shark Tank, we literally were down to our last hundred dollars. We were in the process of selling our home. It was intense. And that's even a part that's aligned on the show. We had said we were down to a hundred bucks left in our bank account and they were like a hundred dollars. Oh my God. But really in reality, we also signed on with our very first lead investor 250 K that morning, and that wasn't seen on the show. And we had talked about that there and there's a lot that goes on the show itself. But yeah, so we were in a really excited place that morning because we were secured that deal and we had hoped we were hoping for Damon, not honestly, just because he's had Booboo and that he would relate to this niche category and mission and he did, and he handed us his phone number to be a mentor for us, which is awesome.
(25:46):
And we didn't get a deal, but I'm so glad that we didn't just from the equity side of that as well as we were able to get exposure for a brand like ours to be on mainstream TV is such a huge deal. And afterwards, what came from that, the messages from people were just incredible. So what a cool experience.
Kurt Elster (26:09):
Do you see the Shark Tank bump every time your episode rear airs, you see your traffic go up?
Vicky Pasche (26:15):
Oh yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. We see the Shark Tank bump and also the messages. And one of the stories, this is a really good one here that I'll share is so it was a woman that reached out. She happens to be a lesbian, and her father and her did not have a relationship because of that. They hadn't really spoken in years, but he was an avid Shark Tank watcher, and she says, you don't understand what that did for relationship, that he saw your episode. And he messaged me three words, check out Dapper Boy. And so that was such a huge deal for their relationship because he was able to see that on a mainstream TV and relate in that way that it's like, okay, and that was just the first conversation for them. And stories like that we get all the time and that's why we do what we do. I mean, we're changing people's lives, their confidence, their self-worth, all of those things. So
Kurt Elster (27:13):
It sounds like you've got this really strong connection with your customers, your audience, and ultimately what sounds like has become a community around Dapper Boy. Do you use their feedback in product development?
Vicky Pasche (27:32):
Yes, always throughout the years. And our button up, the very first one to where it is today is completely different due to all of that feedback that we get from our customers. So no, they're essential to our brand and happened from the beginning. I mean, we have customers still from our very first Kickstarter campaign, which is the coolest thing. But yeah, I mean it's again crazy. Some of the stories we hear, we even have parents reaching out to us, thanking us for existing. Another story, and I always share this one because this is what I mean by impact here, is a parent reached out to us thanking us because their 14-year-old child was actually suicidal until they saw a Dapper Voy video ad. They felt like they belong on this earth. So these are the kind of stories where when we're talking about selling our house and we talk about our why, this is a heavy weight on our shoulders here and we have to keep going. It's so important for us to go mainstream. We're not trying to be in the pride section during the month of June at Target. This needs to be mainstream thing so that everyone feels like they belong.
Kurt Elster (28:40):
So you see this as influencing societal norms is one of your long-term goals here?
Vicky Pasche (28:51):
Oh yeah, yeah. We're changing history here. We're breaking down this binary way of thinking and just being open. And this is also really interesting. We've had conversations with some big mainstream retailers and the question is, is mainstream retail ready for a brand like Dapper Boy? And I don't know if we quite are yet. The question is where would Dapper Boy go in a store, the men's section, the women's section, is it a third category? And I think this is where we missed the mark on Shark Tank because, and I take accountability for this, it's like we're not trying to create a third category because I think that again, it's too exclusive. People will feel like that is the pride section kind of feeling to go there. I think honestly, the best way to do it is baby steps. I think personally it should be in both sections to start maybe like I said earlier, with men hearing those words like gender and inclusive, that's very rare to hear in men's clothing.
(29:54):
So what if these, maybe it's just jeans we start with in both sections and the men try them on and they're like, huh, this fits me. I've never had a pair of jeans fit. And then they start looking into, oh wait, this is an all gender line. And then it becomes not so scary. And then eventually, maybe it can be by style preference. But I think that these conversations are important to be had, and I try to get my face in front of retailers as much as possible so they remember my face when we were ready to have this conversation. But for now, I think our best route is direct to consumer. We could reach so many more people this way with our paid ad strategies. And we're working also on the size charts and how we can communicate to people how our clothes fit their bodies best
Kurt Elster (30:42):
In fashion and apparel, size, guide size charts, just communicating sizing is such a friction point for both the merchant and the customer. The customer's like, well, look, I just want to buy something that fits, but I can't try it on. And what happens if it doesn't fit and then they got to return or exchange it? The merchant doesn't want to deal with it either. They're like, Hey, I wish this worked on the first try. What are some of the challenges there or how do you overcome that?
Vicky Pasche (31:09):
Yeah, it has been challenging, especially with such a hybrid product. We had decided when we were talking about sizing and how we were going to develop this, we actually felt like men sizing was the easiest to follow women sizing. It's very vanity. Are you a size zero? I just don't understand that concept to be honest with you. So I felt like just a simple waste measurement was the easiest. And we offer sizes 26 to 52 currently, which kind of lines up with men's sizing, but originally we had just size charts, which is not so helpful. And so we've used quite a few different apps in our Shopify store. I think right now it's the key we size chart app that we currently use. So people could technically measure, but it also puts you in, kind of spits out your dapper boy size. But at the same time, what we are currently working on, we have a partnership with a company called Couture Technologies, and we are working on our very first virtual reality avatar.
(32:11):
And it'll be the very first time that it's not going to be gender-based, where you don't have to pick man or woman. It's literally based on taking a photo and seeing it on your body. And now you'll be able to see Dapper Boy clothes with a heat map of where the garment might be tighter on your body or looser. And so building your Dapper Boy wardrobe. So this is all happening right now and hoping to launch even this year, and we're going to start with phase one in May. So it's very exciting and I think this is the way of the future. I know there's a lot of different vr AI type apps here that we've been talking to for years, but none have done this completely gender inclusive kind of avatar, which is so exciting.
Kurt Elster (32:55):
No, that is cool. What's the name of that app again? Is Couture.
Vicky Pasche (33:00):
Yeah, it's a company called Couture Technologies.
Kurt Elster (33:04):
This episode is brought to you in part by clever, horrific. Here's the rub. When customers can't make simple changes to their orders, they get frustrated. It's not just a minor inconvenience, it is a major roadblock in customer satisfaction and retention for you. This frustration doesn't just upset your customers, it bogs down your support team with requests that could have been avoided. And that means slower response times, increased errors, and ultimately a hit to your brand reputation. But it doesn't have to be this way. Enter clever. This tool allows customers to make changes themselves through a user-friendly customer portal, adjusting, adding or canceling orders with ease. And the proof is in the numbers. Take Peter Manning, New York who slash their support tickets by 99% using Clever. These tools are not just about solving problems, they're about transforming your business operations for the better. And for a limited time, Shopify merchants can take advantage of Clever If's exclusive podcast, offer 50% off their pro plan now only $49 a month, granting you full access to every clever if feature. Visit clever if.com/unofficial use code shop 50 today to start your free trial and claim your discount. That's clever if.com/unofficial.
(34:14):
Because it is such a new category, there is difficulty in communicating it to potential retailers, difficulty communicating the sizing, which it sounds like you've overcome that. What marketing is effective for you? I assume it's challenging, but what marketing is effective and what do you find you've been able to resonate and reach your audience?
Vicky Pasche (34:39):
For us, it's been video marketing for sure. It's all content for us, and that's how we were able to get, it was just so shareable in the beginning. I mean, we had in the beginning where we were doing our iPhone shoots making nineties r and b videos in our button up shirts. I think people were just like, these guys are just crazy. But also solving a really unique problem. I think for us, we don't have a political agenda. We are just being us in the most confident way, and I think that's the best way to relate to folks that maybe are nervous to even be their authentic selves. And so for us, it's been content. We're not shy, we're constantly posting things and videos and we're doing photo shoots all of the time just in our clothes being the most competent self. I think email marketing for us has been huge.
(35:27):
We do at least three emails a week in addition to our automated flows. And so we are not shy about approaching people also with texting as well, 50, what 3% of our revenue comes from email. Again, we have a very loyal customer base, but we are also really working on right now a paid ad strategy that involves all these different customer personas. And so what could that look like for each of these groups? Maybe it is from the LGBTQ plus community, maybe that's one persona. And then there's plus size men or women that don't necessarily love shopping very feminine styles of the women's department, although we are working on a lot of different styles. But I think for us it's like communicating and relating to each one of those thinking through every single touch point for each customer persona has been essential.
Kurt Elster (36:22):
How many customer personas do you keep in mind?
Vicky Pasche (36:27):
Yeah, right now it's three to four, but again, we're really, we haven't even touched the iceberg within our own lgbtq plus community, so we're really honing in on that currently. And then as we're, because we're still in that kind of bootstrap mode, we're fundraising right now, we're trying to close this round here so we can get ahead of inventory. We're launching new styles and as we're launching new styles, we're keeping these other customer personas in mind and we'll start launching those ad campaigns as well. We've already dabbled a bit and it's working, but again, when you're budget conscious here and you're in that bootstrap mode, we kind of double down on what works and then testing these audiences as we're growing.
Kurt Elster (37:10):
So what are, it sounds like you've got long-term goals in mind here for Dapper Boy. What are those long-term goals, new products, markets you want to explore? What's the plan here?
Vicky Pasche (37:23):
Yeah, so it's a complete lifestyle brand from again, button ups and jeans to swimwear to suits. We have it all. Eventually we'll launch different maybe a kid's line. We get that all the time from parents constantly. But again, our goal is to be the next Levi's of all gender fashion. I see us, I say in particular because they're that long lasting denim brand that everybody knows for years and years and years. And so I think we will be that. Not even, I think I know we will, and so we're striving to be that we're having conversations with retailers. Also some corporate interesting things have been coming up here that I can't wait to share in the future, but there's just so many avenues for Dapper Boy and we want to be at the forefront of that. I think there's a lot of brands out there, especially over 50% of Gen Z shops outside of their gender.
(38:20):
And so I know that now our time. Yeah. Yep. Over 50%. I think five years ago if we had big investors, I don't even think the world was ready then, but now I truly believe we are. And I think that there's a lot of mainstream brands saying that they do gender neutral stuff, and I think it's great because it helps us, but at the same time, it's like oversized sweatshirts, which are cool too. But we really hone in on fit, fit in the size range. Again, it's all about competence and not necessarily fitting in. It's about belonging and feeling like you could be your authentic self and be completely okay with that.
Kurt Elster (39:01):
Yeah, the general neutral clothing I own is all like, here's a tent, spirit jerseys, it's oversized sweatshirts. I love that stuff, but it's like, alright, you're doing this on easy mode.
Vicky Pasche (39:16):
Exactly, exactly. So it's changing that conversation. It's about fit and style.
Kurt Elster (39:22):
So what if you had to go, it's been nine years since that first Kickstarter, if you had to do something differently with how you started the business, would there be anything? What would you do differently?
Vicky Pasche (39:35):
Yes, I would get out of my own way. I would've connected early and often with investors and having these early conversations no matter where you are in your journey, because now we're at this point of crucial fundraising and it's like initial conversations about going back, but we were producing in credible results from the beginning, and it's just getting out of your own way. When it comes to fundraising in particular, I just learned this lesson even recently is you're not asking for yourself. And when you don't come from a place from money, sometimes it's hard to ask and you feel like it's a personal favor or something here, but Dapper Boy is an opportunity. The results we were able to bootstrap is incredible. So I just wish that I connected early and often not try to figure everything out myself when it came to that things and just those things and rely on people and relationships because now it's happening, we're connecting, but if I did this earlier on in the journey, maybe we'd be in a different place, even larger.
Kurt Elster (40:43):
I like that advice. If you were to give advice to someone starting their own apparel business for the first time, would you tell them the same thing or something different?
Vicky Pasche (40:55):
Yeah, I would tell them the same thing. I would say get started. I know that a lot of this is analysis paralysis kind of stuff here, especially like me, I didn't have the background at all. It's crazy that I started a fashion line when I was so grumpy before with my long hair and chopper to the women's department. If you were to ask my friends back in high school, would Vicky start a fashion line? And they would laugh, but it's a passion and it's the confidence that I developed along the way here. So I would say for people that are just starting that are second guessing themselves is one step at a time, one day at a time, utilize people connections, go to conferences, get inspired, read books. You're not in this alone and connect with people, follow me on LinkedIn, ask questions. I'm always available because I wish that I had that back in the day and I did it because I was too much in my head that I had to figure it out all myself. So it's connecting with folks, you're not alone.
Kurt Elster (41:57):
That network and not just adding people LinkedIn, but building relationships and being willing to ask I think helps. And I love that you are like, I wish I could have just gotten out of my own way that I often, I think we all have those moments where, oh yeah, I should have just gotten out of my own way there. But alright. Here's the thing I've been wondering about lately. What's the most important skill for an entrepreneur to have? I'll tell you my answer after I hear yours.
Vicky Pasche (42:25):
There's so many skill is in, I think it's having that grit that ready for the roller coaster because it is that, but it's so worth it because what I'm trying to be, have this flexible life and for my children someday to be able to have a flexible life as well and see what the work ethic that's put in. So I would think the most important thing is having the grit and patience because it is a long ride here. And also being confident in yourself as in don't settle or because somebody else is telling you, because maybe they are investor or have done it before. No one can do it like you. Be open to feedback, but don't change your vision.
Kurt Elster (43:17):
I like that advice. I think a lot of people pick something similar to that. Mine. I was going to say resilience and variation of the same thing, right? Resilience. Because to get it right, you are going to get punched in the face or fail so many times along the way, especially early on. And so knowing that, accepting it and just be willing to get up and keep going is so critical. Otherwise you run into your first issue and you're like, well, it did work. I'm done here. Moving on.
Vicky Pasche (43:47):
Right, right.
Kurt Elster (43:48):
Yeah, you got to commit.
Vicky Pasche (43:51):
No, I love that. I think mistakes are crucial. Those mistakes are essential when you're going through it sometimes and you're just like, oh my God, what did I do? And you're like hiding under your desk. Now I look back and I'm like, that mistake was meant to be, every mistake was meant to happen and you don't feel it in that moment. But looking back, it always is.
Kurt Elster (44:15):
My 7-year-old was at, we were at an event and there was a thing that she wanted to do. Second guess herself didn't do it. And she went home and she was clearly upset about it. And I said, Hey, all you did, I said, you're disappointed, right? Yeah. I said, that just taught you that the next time, that opportunity or something like it comes up, say yes or you're going to be disappointed later. And she calmed down. She perked up and she's seven. I hope she understood the lesson there, but it worked. So for folks who are interested in checking out Dapper Boy, where can they find your products?
Vicky Pasche (44:56):
Yeah, so our website's www.dapperboy.com. Again, that's with a BO. I also checked out our Instagram Dapper Boy, and then SRIs and I recently started our own Meet the Pashas Instagram, and it's really showing kind of behind the brand and all our daily craziness of trying to get this brand mainstream here. So you could follow the Pashas as well
Kurt Elster (45:24):
If we want to connect with you. Is that the Instagram? Is that the best way to do it?
Vicky Pasche (45:28):
Yeah. Yep. Definitely meet the Pashas Instagram for sure. Or on LinkedIn of course as well. Vicky Pasha.
Kurt Elster (45:35):
Alright. Any final thoughts or words of wisdom you want to share with us?
Vicky Pasche (45:40):
Keep going. Wherever you are in your journey, don't give up. If I can do it, anybody can do it. And I think this life is short here and it's all about how you make it. So any entrepreneurs that are maybe stuck right now or thinking to get started, just get started one task that day.
Kurt Elster (46:02):
Fantastic advice. Thank you, Vicki. This has been, it is been inspiring. I feel good.
Vicky Pasche (46:09):
Well, thank you. It's been so much fun being on your show. You're so easy to talk to Kurt. Thank you.
Kurt Elster (46:16):
Crowdfunding campaigns are great. You can add social proof and urgency to your product. Pre-orders while reducing risk of failure. But with traditional crowdfunding platforms, you're paying high fees and giving away control all while your campaign is lost in a sea of similar offers. It could be frustrating. That's why we built Crowdfunder, the Shopify app that turns your Shopify product pages into your own independent crowdfunding campaigns. We originally created Crowdfunder for our private clients, and it was so successful we turned it into an app that anyone can use today. Merchants using Crowdfunder have raised millions collectively with Crowdfunder. You'll enjoy real time tracking, full campaign control and direct customer engagement. And it's part of the Built for Shopify program so it's easy to use. So say goodbye to high fees and hello to successful store-based crowdfunding. Start your free trial and transform your Shopify store into a pre-order Powerhouse today. Search Crowdfunder in the Shopify app store to get started.