w/ Wayne Richard, Bean Ninjas
Join us on The Unofficial Shopify Podcast as eCommerce accounting expert Wayne Richard shares financial strategies for Shopify store owners. Learn common mistakes, efficiency metrics, sales tax nexus complexities, and money-saving tips. Wayne also advises on choosing the right accountant and emphasizes the importance of setting aside profits for unforeseen expenses. Supercharge your store's finances with insights from Wayne Richard in this accounting-packed episode!
The Unofficial Shopify Podcast
6/13/2023
Kurt Elster: Ah, my friends. Welcome back to The Unofficial Shopify Podcast. I’m your host, Kurt Elster, AKA:
Ezra Firestone Sound Board Clip: Tech Nasty!
Kurt Elster: You’re gonna have to excuse my voice. A little hoarse. A little quiet today. That’s all right. Just getting over something gross. And our guest today, though, has got something very exciting, truly epic. We’re gonna talk accounting. Bookkeeping. Finances. Wow. Truly, truly epic stuff. I don’t know. It doesn’t sound exciting, but it is. It’s important. That is how you describe a business, right? And certainly, a necessity to file your taxes regularly. All these things are important and it’s what gives you a clear, quantifiable picture into your business.
So, joining us today, we’re joined by Wayne Richard, the U.S. Director of Bean Ninjas, a leader in eCommerce accounting, and Wayne has quite a lot of experience here from working at tech giant, Hewlett Packard, to speaking at events for Shopify and Dynamite Circle, and he is here to share his knowledge and help you supercharge your Shopify store’s finances. So, buckle up my friends. We’re diving into the world of eCommerce accounting.
Sound Board:
Kurt Elster: I’m just gonna abuse that cha-ching sound effect today. All right, let’s start easy. We gotta establish who you are and why we should listen to you. I need to know that you’re not just some guy making stuff up. Wayne, give me a little bit about your background and how you got involved with Bean Ninjas.
Wayne Richard: Yeah, absolutely, so thanks, Kurt. I hope I live up to that introduction. I do know it’s not the sexiest topic for us to uncover, but often it becomes the identity of the brand, right? Initially in conversations you meet sellers and one of the first questions, it’s like, “So, how well are you guys doing?” And the identity is wrapped, “I’m a seven-figure brand. I’m an eight-figure, nine-figure brand.” And often the bits and pieces that help folks understand how they got there is really not discussed.
And I hope today we can uncover some of those secrets, talk through some of the tips, but I’m Wayne Richard, as you mentioned. I’m a partner and the U.S Director at Bean Ninjas. We’re a firm that specializes in eCommerce accounting, bookkeeping, financial reporting services. My background was in financial planning and analysis with Hewlett Packard, where we were responsible for billion dollar budgets and really working amongst one of the world’s greatest finance organizations. I had hoped to take a lot of those principles, apply them to small business, and what I discovered early in my journey was in order to apply some of the more complex financial strategies that we were using, we really needed to begin to educate and focus sellers around the importance of the basics. And it’s really just managing your books so that you have timely and accurate data to begin to do some of the more complex financial strategies from.
Kurt Elster: All right, so let’s start with where people are going wrong. What are the common eCommerce accounting mistakes that you see merchants making over and over and how do they avoid them?
Wayne Richard: Absolutely. So, I think one of the first mistakes that’s made is people assume getting a QuickBooks Online subscription is an accounting system, and it’s a piece of the system, right? When I look at systems, I consider multiple factors. Who’s responsible for managing the workflows within the system? What are the tools we utilize to work the system? And then what is the time frames around when we’re responsible for actually dedicating and spending the time in those systems with those people?
So, I think also within that, not just setting up QuickBooks, but also defaulting to use the chart of accounts that’s provided in the setup wizard as a means to getting established. eCommerce accounting is extremely difficult. There’s so many different facets of areas where cash is coming in and going out of the business that really having a defined chart of accounts that helps better speak to the insights and clarity around those areas of spend is something that I also see many sellers doing as an initial mistake.
And then I’ll just… I’ll kind of joke, but it comes about often, is either having the founder continue to do the bookkeeping when there’s other tasks that they really have key strengths to focus on that better support growing the business, or defaulting to like the aunt that was a bookkeeper for this restaurant a few years ago and using someone that really wasn’t specialized or educated in the industry to really manage that complex accounting system.
Kurt Elster: I outsourced our bookkeeping. First of all, I use Bench, and I have no complaints, but one of the wisest things I ever did because I hated it. I mean, once I remember we were just sitting, because I had to put together that package for the accountant for the new year, and I had put it off for like seven months. We were backed up. And that’s when I knew. I was like, “All right, this isn’t happening again. We need to get someone to actually take care of this for me.” Because not knowing, oh my gosh. The stress of that, did not like it.
Wayne Richard: Oh, absolutely. And I think what’s important is to also remember the audience for who the reports are being provided for. Oftentimes, accounting is looked at as simply a compliance task. As you mentioned, I have a requirement every year as do all businesses to share financial statements to a CPA, or an enrolled agent, to produce year-end tax filings. There’s two other audiences that are involved in that and other reasons to put together financial reports, as well. As we’ve seen throughout eCommerce in the last few years more particularly, lending and sourcing for other means of working capital outside just the profits or cash flow within your business is extremely important. And often these banking institutions and lenders look into your financial reports to help identify the viability of those lending requests.
But then also where we focus is you, as a founder, have a key tool within these financial reports that once you begin to understand the story in numbers that these reports are sharing with you, can make timely and really insightful decisions that can drastically impact your business and help really work towards improving profitability.
Kurt Elster: I believe you. But to illustrate it, can you walk me through a working example?
Wayne Richard: Yeah, on how a founder may use their financials to help decide which areas to focus. So, we recommend that folks structure their financial reports in ways to identify those major areas of spend within their business. So, one of the major areas, of course, is your cost of goods sold. Cost of goods sold can be not just your product cost, but also include things like your payment processing fees, your merchant expenses, so the platform charges. What we’ve seen in helping sellers understand the profitability across each of their sales channels is there may be some sales channels that just aren’t viable for your product where you have the price point to which you’re able to competitively sell your product.
So, in understanding your gross profit margin by channel, you can begin to select which channels to double down in and continue to go hard and make those investments in.
Kurt Elster: So, without that knowledge, without the reporting, without the proper accounting, profit and loss statements, et cetera, I’m potentially engaging in business practices that when I’m successful at them I lose more money.
Wayne Richard: I call them scaling losses. Absolutely.
Kurt Elster: Scaling losses. Yeah. And you don’t know what you don’t know in many cases.
Wayne Richard: Absolutely. And I think at times the focus has historically been on that top line. So, if you’re seeing growth and traction in that top line, I’m getting more orders, I’m getting higher month-over-month sales, you’re thinking you’re successful. But once you begin to peel back and understand the costs required to support that scale, it may put you in a position where it’s just not a viable sales channel for your brand.
Kurt Elster: So, walk me through some of those key financial KPIs, those top financial metrics that as a store owner I should be reviewing regularly.
Wayne Richard: Yeah. I think about financial metrics really across two major categories. I think of growth metrics, and I think of efficiency metrics. So, when I’m thinking of things like growth metrics, I’m of course… I am interested in seeing month-over-month growth in sales, and by that I mean net sales. One of the things we also recommend is get granular within your sales reporting. We talked about a few common mistakes, but another one that I tend to see is folks taking the deposits that are hitting their bank account and simply reconciling that as their sales number. But in fact, in Shopify as an example, that’s the net sum of the gross sales, your price times the number of units sold, less the Shopify platform charges, less the payment processing fees, less your shipping income, your returns, so it’s important to understand those factors separately than your gross sales.
So, we’re looking at those areas. As an example, maybe discounts. You know, you had a heavy month of discounts that were drawing down that net revenue number. And maybe that was effective for your business. Perhaps it was not. But some of the other growth metrics we look at are your gross profit margin, so your gross profit margin helps indicate how much money is left in the business after deducting those costs for your product, packaging, platform charges, and delivery cost.
We also want to understand as an eCom brand where most growth happens through customer acquisition and paid media is what is your contribution margin after marketing expenses. And this is critical because it helps inform you how much money is left to pay your team, to take a viable living wage from your business, but also spend on those traditional things that we call operating expenses. The software and subscriptions, the financing charges on any lending obligations, legal filing fees that you may have incurred. And then when I look at efficiency metrics, I’m looking at the contribution after marketing, but I’m also looking at things that are particular to inventory. How many days or weeks of inventory are on hand? And then also how much cash do I have available in the business?
One common error that we often hear is folks think profit is cash flow. And it’s not. You have other areas of spend that occur within a business that sit outside of your profit and loss statement. There’s things that are payments for liabilities, things that you’ve made decisions upon in the past to where the bill may be coming due now.
Kurt Elster: Are you a CPA?
Wayne Richard: I am not a CPA. I think… So, what’s important to share is now with the advent of technology and the ability for firms to focus on particular niche markets, I believe the accounting world is becoming very similar to customer acquisition and growth agencies, where you have firms that are able to go very deep in particular areas where you have now specialists in email marketing, specialists in SMS or influencer, Facebook agencies. It’s very similar in the accounting world. CPAs are responsible for auditing and signing off on public financial statements, stock ticker companies. They’re also able to sign off and do year-end tax filing similar to an IRS enrolled agent, so it’s a designation.
I am an accountant. I have a degree in accounting and my career has been spent in accounting and finance. I’ve only focused in my time as an entrepreneur in supporting small, private companies. Think of things like LLCs and S corps. Small $1 to $10 million brands. Where the CPA designation would require me to go take CPE credits, education, and because I’m not signing off on financial statements or doing tax returns, that requirement’s not necessary.
Kurt Elster: Okay. Recently, I saw a tweet. I think it was one of the guys from Obvi said there is… Paraphrasing, it was something like there is a disturbing number of eCommerce founders who don’t understand a profit loss statement. And so, can you walk us through structuring a profit and loss statement for a Shopify store?
Wayne Richard: Absolutely. This is where I’ll geek out a little bit. So, I’ll allow you to hit any soundbites or shut me down, because this is where I live. So, I live in the world of operational finance. And what that means is you, as a brand operator, have available this key tool, which is your profit and loss statement in conjunction with the balance sheet and cash flow statement that what I believe are the roadmaps in helping you understand in numbers the story of those decisions you’ve made in the past, but also the scorecard for you to understand is it a story I like and one I want to continue to repeat telling going into the future?
If not, you can change that story by making different decisions in your business that impact some of these areas. So, I’ll start in structuring your P&L, really it should be built in a way that provides you granular insights into the key drivers of your sales and costs within your business. What you’re really looking for is insights and clarity so that you can make more informed decisions on where you allocate the spend going forward.
So, we’ll start with sales. I mentioned within sales in Shopify you have various components that make up the net deposits that post in your bank account. So, what we recommend is in addition to gross sales is for you to separate out your discounts, your returns, and your shipping income. This helps you understand the net sales number, the true amount of money that you have available to make those decisions from. We now go into understanding the various expenses that go into your business. I alluded, of course, initially to cost of goods sold. We recommend also breaking out your cost of goods sold in a way that helps you understand your product costs separate from your marketplace seller fees, separate from your payment processor fees, and if you’re a smaller brand where there’s very few product categories or SKUs, you can also break out those costs so you can understand your costs across each of those particular areas.
Those brands that have more SKUs or product categories, this becomes too cumbersome administratively to try to understand in a tool like QuickBooks Online or Xero, so it’s better done in other tools that are built to really handle that understanding of gross profit margin.
Those two areas then help you define that gross profit margin, which is the KPI we spoke of earlier. Really, this is again the key metric that brands can use to indicate how much profit is left after delivering product to their customers. We then get into a major category that is called often operating expenses. We recommend within Shopify brands to break out your operating expenses across three major areas. The first is marketing, so customer acquisition, then wages and team costs, and then lastly it’s kind of other. It’s those necessary expenses that you or any business would have to incur. Your filing fees, things like postage not for shipping out to your customers, but just normal office expenses.
So, within that customer acquisition cost, we’re really looking to understand by that marketing channel to try to gain the visibility and understand just generally is it tracking to what my Triplewhale or my Crossbeam is telling me these numbers are headed directionally? Because we have an ability within the accounting to understand across all of your credit cards, all your banks, how much really was spent on each platform within a given month? And how much sales was generated within a given month?
So, as long as you can get and build that confidence directionally, this is moving in the same way that my agencies, my various tools of reporting are telling me, you gain that peace of mind and confidence that it’s really a viable strategy to continue moving forward with. This helps us understand the contribution after marketing expenses, which I discussed. Here, we’re just simply subtracting our customer acquisition from that gross profit margin to inform us how much fuel is available now to continue to pay my team, to have a viable living wage paid to myself, and also help spend on those things like the software and subscriptions and other areas necessary within my business?
These then give you the bottom line number, and I know I’m going long, but here it’s net profit. So, really the ultimate goal of any business, regardless if you’re a Shopify brand, restaurant, boutique fitness gym, is to optimize net profit. So, we recommend tracking this metric closely and we can do that by breaking it down by either sales channel or product category and looking at ways then that we can move the needle to help improve profitability.
Kurt Elster: And when you say we get… This is the metric we gotta track. We’re looking at how can we improve profitability. Essentially, you end up with this one source of truth, this trustable KPI that really indicates our health as a business, our operational efficiency. How often am I looking at this without making myself crazy?
Wayne Richard: Absolutely. So, monthly is the goal. Quarterly really is where we see the earlier stage brands focusing. But once you get into a place where you have that system of the right resources to manage this for your brand, the right systems to use to collect this information and have it readily available, monthly gives you the opportunity to then influence those numbers at a time frame that won’t fall too far behind. If I was only looking at these numbers quarterly and for three months prior had been losing money, I could have made decisions to course correct, to negotiate more favorable deal terms much sooner, and have avoided some of those losses.
Kurt Elster: Okay. There is a terrifying term. You could terrify merchants with this. You go, “Hey, sales nexus.” Terrifying. It’s a squishy concept that may have varied definitions depending on which state you’re in, and in eCommerce, in retail, it becomes quite the potential surprise liability. Can you talk to me about what the heck is sales tax nexus and why is this so difficult?
Wayne Richard: Yeah. I think it’s difficult because each state defines the thresholds differently. So, we’re often asked by sellers, “Am I responsible for sales tax?” And the answer usually is it depends. One of the other things that make it extremely frightening is often the cost of being compliant to support accurate sales tax collection, registration, filings, is more than what the actual sales tax is. So, here sales tax nexus or nexus is a few different things. There’s different concepts to be considered.
First, there’s economic nexus. So, economic nexus is a dollar threshold that is exceeded from sales to a particular state that identifies you as responsible for registering, collecting, and filing sales tax in that state. There’s also another concept that makes this more confusing and that’s physical nexus or physical presence, which helps identify you as having nexus. And this could be for sellers on Shopify but may also be using Amazon and having stock within Amazon. The presence of inventory in the Amazon warehouses makes them then responsible within those states that the warehouses sit to register, file, and remit sales tax within those states.
Kurt Elster: Where do people go wrong with this?
Wayne Richard: They go wrong by ignoring. Some folks prefer to just wait and get the tap on the shoulder and rush to identify what their responsibilities are. I recommend at a minimum there’s some amazing resources available. We have friends at Tax Valet that have a tool that allows for you to understand within each state what the nexus thresholds look like. So, by using that, you could begin to understand at least what risk am I entertaining. If I’m aware that I’m a smaller brand and that I may only have a few hundred dollars in outstanding sales tax in one particular state, I may be more okay with saying I’ll give it a little more time before I start making the larger investments in being compliant and sourcing the tools to help me get clearly identified across all those sales what my responsibilities are, spending the time to get registered in these states, and receiving the necessary sales tax permits, and turning those features on across my various sales channels.
Because at the end of the day, sales tax should not be an expense line within your business. You’re simply a steward of the state. You’re collecting sales tax from customers at a predefined rate set by the city, county, state that the product’s being sold in, and remitting that back to the state over time. Where it does become not as much a liability, but an expense line within your business, is in the cost of compliance. So, within the accounting world, there’s now firms that niche focus exclusively in supporting brands in this area of sales tax. They help with the process of getting registered in the state, defining those states that you’re approaching nexus within so that you can begin to get organized and have all of the paperwork in order so you can turn on the right buttons to collect and remit going forward.
One of the last areas that make it quite confusing is the rates within each city, county, state are different, but also the time frames to which you’re responsible to file are different depending on how much you may owe. Some may have just yearly requirements, others quarterly, some there’s requirements for monthly filing, so sourcing an expert if you’re a very established brand with very considerable sales volume across any state is certainly kind of a value added resource.
Kurt Elster: One of the things I’ve wondered about is if I’ve… What is the impact on nexus with regards to sales channels? So, like I sell on my Shopify store, but I don’t sell enough to hit the threshold, but then I also sell through Facebook Shop, which they’ll collect the sales tax and remit it for me, or I sell through Amazon Marketplace, same deal. If those hit the threshold but they’re doing the filing, how does that affect me? This one I really don’t know, and people have asked me this recently and I’m like… I couldn’t say.
Wayne Richard: Yeah. I think people in the accounting world have been talking about this to a degree because it is complex, right? You have multiple sales channels and different volumes. But your business has one federal EIN number. It’s one identity. There’s one organization that’s delivering all of these sales. So, really again the presence of inventory, the economic nexus threshold across all of those sales channels needs to be considered. But you do need to remember that Amazon also has the marketplace facilitator where they’re… At the end of the day, it’s your sales but really they were Amazon’s customers. Amazon collected the sales tax.
So, it really is dependent on the brand. I often say at times I feel like I sound much like a doctor, where a lot of answers are it depends. I will say the critical task for sellers is to understand where their sales are coming from and at the end of the day who’s responsible for registering, collecting, and filing those returns, because it is dependent and different within each sales channel.
Kurt Elster: All right, sales tax, accounting for it, filing it, not the most exciting thing. What is exciting is saving money. Are there money-saving strategies that eCommerce owners should be using that they may not know about?
Wayne Richard: Absolutely. I think there’s really two categories where we want to consider saving money. One is within the various tax options and strategies that are available to not just eCommerce brands, but many businesses. I would say one of the first is really to dig in and understand what entity type your business is operating in. This means is your business a corporation? Is it an S-Corp, a partnership, a sole proprietorship? Because this will help define some of the available options that you have available to… strategies for paying yourself, and ways in which you can set up different things like 401(k)s within your business.
So, second to that you want to consider your tax basis. So, there’s concepts in accounting that are either cash basis accounting or accrual basis accounting, and both have their pros and cons depending upon the tax code. So, the difference really is the timing in which you recognize your sales and expenses. With that said, that’s kind of set up, then if we start to consider some various tax savings opportunities, there’s a concept called the Augusta rule, and the Augusta rule came about based on the site of the famous Masters golf tournament.
So, the Augusta rule allows for tax-free rental income if your property is rented for 14 days or less within the given year. So, brands could use this rule to their advantage by renting out their home to their business for things like employee meetings, for things like quarterly financial reviews with their accountant. Another is to look into if you have a manufacturing component, tax deductible strategies for recognizing your research and development expenses. So, these could be costs associated with developing new products, or simply improving some of your existing ones.
The next are strategies around how you pay yourself. There’s different entity types that allow for the brand, the founder, or the main operator/business owner to take a reasonable wage from the business, but then take other earnings through the business through things such as distributions. Those distributions help you save approximately 15% in self-employment taxes.
Kurt Elster: Whoa.
Wayne Richard: Yeah. It could be considerable when you’re a high wage earner from your business and setting up your own personal earnings in a way that provides some cost savings to the business.
Kurt Elster: Hold on. Tell me how to do that.
Wayne Richard: I think working with… One, you need the right entity selection, but then two, utilizing tools like Gusto, and resources that are available, to understand. Working with your accountant to understand what is a reasonable salary based on my size of business and the role that I actually deliver in the tasks I do day to day within the business are some of the key tips on how to get this established.
Moving on, not just tax savings, but there’s some non-tax ways to save money in your business. And they’re simple things that often I’m surprised get ignored. Negotiating with your suppliers. I think often people just assume what they’ve been paying needs to be what they have to pay next month, but within eCommerce we’re often going to the table with larger asks, ordering more product, working in higher volumes, so there’s opportunity there to come back to the table and begin to negotiate with your suppliers. Simply too, working with some of the payment processors like Stripe and PayPal, going to them once you’ve eclipsed certain levels of sales running through their platforms and looking for more cost effective terms with these suppliers.
Another, using cost effective shipping options. I think people are really in that rush in the early stages in trying to get product out to their customers, but over time tend to forget that this is a major expense area in their business. So, looking for ways to be more cost effective in doing that. Optimizing for conversion. I think what we often see is people throw up their Shopify page initially and they see traction and sales, and they don’t look at those key metrics that help them understand what might be negatively impacting their conversions and their sales. So, increasing sales is also a way not to save money, but to help generate more profit within your business.
And lastly, consider raising your prices. We often work with sellers, and it almost never becomes a topic of discussion or one that they fear. Every dollar you’re able to raise your price is a dollar of profit if you’re able to keep your cost basis the same. So, really consider if you’re unique or have a higher quality product that your customers are willing to pay more for. They’re kind of expecting that, as well. Now, I know most things I spend on I’m anticipating spending more on next month simply because of the factors in the current state of the economy. So, be brave. Consider raising your prices. And there’s some amazing calculators that I’ve seen floating out there, as well, that help you understand at what loss of sales does that increased price begin to impact me.
You may see a bit of a drop in sales from those that are extremely price sensitive, but more often than not if you’re mindful and strategic in what that pricing increase is, you’ll be better off in the end.
Kurt Elster: You know, raising prices is good advice. I think people are so resistant to raise their own prices. And yet that seems like the easiest, fastest path to more revenue, right? Seems pretty sane to me.
All right. Any advice for choosing the right accountant?
Wayne Richard: Yeah. I think nowadays, as I’ve mentioned, there’s specialists across each industry. So, where I would begin first is really looking to those that are on top of the latest technologies, understanding of the key workflows that are necessary to operating within the eCom space, and there’s tools like A2X that have directories of these eCommerce accounting specialists. And once you identify those specialists, then hold some initial meetings or interviews. Get a feel for what their mission, vision, and values are. Are they aligned with what your brand represents? More importantly too, are they people you could get along with? I think the accounting space is interesting because it’s very trust based. It’s open kimono, right? You’re sharing with someone all of the expenses, all of the balances you’re holding across your AmEx cards, your credit cards, all of the various lending options that you’ve used to help build your business. You’re giving them a peek into the playbook that’s become how you’re operating your brand.
So, building a relationship and starting to establish trust across these initial conversations is quite critical. And then asking them for opportunities to perhaps chat with other customers they’ve worked with. Many brands are now also pretty savvy about sharing the social proof on their websites of brands that they’ve had some success stories in working with, so try to reach out. People are pretty giving.
I also recommend being involved in communities. Helps you uncover some of the better firms and accountants to work with, as well. I know there’s eCommerceFuel, other big eCom-focused forums, and the Shopify Facebook group. Looking across those forums and just asking who are people using and who’s worked out well in supporting their brand. You get the social proof, but you also can understand a bit more about how involved do I need to be as the seller. There’s some sellers that prefer to be deep into the books and understanding many of the transactions and others that want the executive summary.
Kurt Elster: What’s the most important piece of financial advice you would give to a Shopify merchant listening?
Wayne Richard: Prepare for the rainy day. I love the concepts of books like Profit First and very much in vogue now is Ramit Sethi’s Netflix series, but a lot of that is just in the design of pull back some of that cash you have available and set it aside for things and areas of spend that are known. You know you will have to restock inventory. You know that you will have to pay for taxes, so the key piece of advice is once those sales come in, design a system that allows for some of that money to just instantly be removed from your bank account to a separate bank account that stands alone in the collection and the spend across those major areas that often catch people off guard and have them scrambling for other options for working capital that they tend to then have to pay much more for in the end.
Kurt Elster: Yeah. Separating those accounts out, as silly as it may seem, is huge. I would get myself into trouble the first few years of business in paying taxes because I didn’t know to do that. And as soon as I did, all my tax problems went away. Well, that plus good reasonable bookkeeping. Those two things helped quite a bit. But no, no, it’s sane, good advice.
So, Wayne, where can I learn more about you?
Wayne Richard: Absolutely. So, I’m on LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn. I also will share we have a resource available, free toolkits that are available on our website. I address all of those incoming requests for folks and submissions within the BeanNinjas.com website, as well. So, you’ll find me there. I’m a lurker on Twitter, as well. I’m not as vocal, but I am a presence there and am interested in connecting with folks on either Twitter or LinkedIn.
Kurt Elster: Fabulous. I will include those links in the show notes, as well. Let me make a note of that right now. Thank you, Wayne, so much for joining us today. I appreciate your expertise and insights and being able to demystify a few of these things that I know from personal experience just create headaches and keep people up at night when it shouldn’t have to be this hard. And when you have a clear picture of what’s going on in your business, a lot of this anxiety will go away. And I think that should be the takeaway, is invest in this, invest in understanding your numbers, invest in your bookkeeping and accounting, and as a result your business will be healthier, but I think you will be healthier. You’ll sleep easier at night having this clear picture of what’s really going on.
Wayne Richard, Bean Ninjas, thank you so much.
Wayne Richard: Thanks so much, Kurt. Appreciate the time. Grateful to be here.