Creating a main menu that converts, then a spicy teardown of Marconi Foods.
In this episode, we discuss:
Main Menu examples: KeySmart, Hoonigan, Proven Winners Direct
Teardown: Marconi Foods
Paul Reda: All right, so I’m at the office as you can see if you’re watching a video, but if you’re listening on audio, it doesn’t make any difference.
Kurt Elster: And how is it at Westfield Old Orchard Mall in scenic Skokie, Illinois?
Paul Reda: Empty. There’s no one here.
Kurt Elster: You know, on a weekday there generally weren’t a ton of people, but yeah, two weeks ago I went in on a Saturday. It was packed. And everybody’s wearing masks, but like half of them had their noses out, but there was a ton of people. And then I went last Sunday and there was like… It was Father’s Day. It was like 10% as many people, and it was like 50/50 if they were wearing a mask, and 50/50 if the ones with masks were wearing them, versus holding them. It’s a little strange.
Paul Reda: Yeah, there’s a smattering of stores open. I think Macy’s is open, the Starbucks is open, a couple of the clothing stores are open, Sur la Table is not open.
Kurt Elster: Yeah, and it’s there’s no rhyme or reason to who and isn’t open, so we… I took my kid with me and he’s like, “I want a big treat.” I’m like, “All right.” So, I tried to go to Auntie Anne’s and it’s closed. It was closed last time, too. All right, I don’t know the rhyme or reason there, but it’s closed. And I go next door to Mrs. Fields cookies, there’s only one girl working and she’s not wearing a mask or gloves, so I was like, “All right,” doing a 180. Just exiting. I don’t know if she didn’t notice that everyone else was wearing masks or what the deal here was.
Speaking of masks, I had a run in with whatever the male equivalent of a Karen is. Every merchant who can seems to be selling masks, which I think is great. Suddenly there’s this new accessory, cross-sell, fashion item that everybody needs, right? And one merchant sent me a mask, and I would say who they are, but for the story gets a little weird, so I’m not gonna out them. They sent me a mask and I loved it. I’ve had problems with getting a mask that fits right, and looks right, and they sent me one. It’s perfect. And then they sent ones that fit my kids. Those are the first ones that fit my kids right.
So, I was very excited. I was very grateful. I thanked the man and as a thank you, I said, “Well, here’s an honest review and testimonial for it. Here you go.” And they added this to their website. Literally, like within days of them adding it, a random person I don’t know messages me on Facebook and goes, “I thought you’d like to know that this testimonial that you put on this website is making you look really bad, because I ordered from them and I didn’t get my order.” I was like, “What?”
So, if you didn’t get your order, the first thing you do is go find everyone who left a positive review about a positive experience, track them down, and then warn them about it?
Paul Reda: Well, I think it’s because you’re like a celebrity, and so they don’t-
Kurt Elster: Are we assuming that he knew who I was?
Paul Reda: He did track you down.
Kurt Elster: Well, I mean it had my name on it, he could just Google the name.
Paul Reda: Well, and then he could see you were a celebrity. And then you were lending your name to an inferior product.
Kurt Elster: Well, it’s the point at which he’s like, “I gotta find this guy who had a good experience and tell him.” I thought it was very strange.
Paul Reda: Oh no, it is very strange. That guy’s a psycho.
Kurt Elster: Okay, good. Yeah. So, I said like, “Look, number one, I’m not their customer support. Number two, I had a great experience with it, and I left an honest review. And number three, if I had a bad customer experience, my first thought would not be go track down all the reviewers and let them know.” And he was like, “I was just trying to help you. Sorry for bothering you.” Like, “Okay, bye.”
Paul Reda: How was he helping you by being like your-
Kurt Elster: Well, his argument-
Paul Reda: Your good experience is negated. You didn’t have one.
Kurt Elster: His argument was that I look bad and no one would do business with me in the future because this one company had a misdelivered order for one customer that I had a positive experience with.
Paul Reda: Yeah.
Kurt Elster: It’s quite the stretch.
Paul Reda: His experience is universal.
Kurt Elster: Yeah. I don’t know. It was a very… Never had anything like that happen. I thought it was very strange.
Paul Reda: You’re correct.
Kurt Elster: Yeah, and I was simultaneously… I was mildly annoyed, but also fascinated, like watching a car crash. Like, “That’s not good, but I can’t look away.”
All right, enough with my goofball cold open. Anything you’d like to share with the rest of the class, Mr. Reda?
Paul Reda: I know you were spending a lot of time on your networking at your house, and then you came and visited my house-
Kurt Elster: I love your house.
Paul Reda: Saw that my setup was better than yours, and I’m really sorry that your feelings got hurt.
Kurt Elster: Well, so, working from the home office, and we’re reliant on Wi-Fi for everything in our house, and the placement of the front office in this house was problematic, because number one, a bunch of ducting runs through the wall, and then on the other side of the wall is a bathroom mirror, which turns out those can block Wi-Fi. It’s like a huge bathroom mirror. And because of that, if I then closed my doors to record this podcast or do a Zoom call, my internet would get horribly bad. And so, finally I went through full on dad project, I was pulling Cat6 cable through the walls, hard wiring everything. I spent too much money on a mesh router setup. I was very pleased with it. And then I went to your house, and you had a network-attached storage device, and that was very exciting. If you’re really geeky and nerdy and like to fiddle, like me, yes, I got very excited about your network-attached storage device, and I bought a used one off eBay, and I look forward to messing with it.
Paul Reda: Yeah, so I spent a lot of time and effort on my networking setup, which was buying a wireless router and putting it in the laundry room in the basement, and then I was done.
Kurt Elster: Oh, breaking my heart.
Paul Reda: It works great.
Kurt Elster: No, but seriously, your new house, extremely nice. I really liked it. And there’s a lot of stuff that you got really lucky with, where they had literally dozens of outdoor lights for the garden on all four sides of the house, which that… Either you pay a professional like 10 to 20 grand to do that, or you spend a lot of time burying cable yourself in addition to a couple grand on hardware.
Paul Reda: Yeah. I hate those. Feels like living in the White House, or in like the middle of a prison break. I pulled out all the plugs, like the first week.
Kurt Elster: Oh! Either set up the timer so they run for like an hour at dusk, or just pull some of the lights so you have fewer.
Paul Reda: All right, if anyone, I’m just issuing a call out here. If anyone wants to come to my house and take the outdoor lights or some plants, you’re free to take them. I do not want them. I’m not doing any work outside.
Kurt Elster: On my way! Say no more!
Paul Reda: I want to sit in my nice, cool basement and be left alone.
Kurt Elster: All right, we better start the show before people are like, “What? Is this show about eCommerce or bizarre home improvement?” Though I’ll assume… I mean, the Wi-Fi is vaguely related. But all right, the two things we’ll be talking about on today’s show is number one, why you probably messed up your menus and what to do about it, all right?
And number two, we’re gonna do another direct-to-consumer teardown, only we’re going differently with it. The other teardowns have been like these really high design, really cool websites, that a ton of effort and a big team went into it, and a massive amount of money. We’re going the other way. We’re gonna teardown a site that is straightforward, is simple, and probably makes a ton of money on its own, as well.
Paul Reda: Well, I don’t know if it makes a ton of money, but we’re gonna point out where they could maybe do better.
Kurt Elster: All right, yeah, so I think we’ll do something a little different with that. Would you like to jump into menu madness?
Paul Reda: Well, I don’t think it’s fair for me to start the menu conversation, because this entire menu conversation is going to center on literally one topic, which is the thing you hate most in the entire universe. Like worse than Nazis, or like racism, or poverty, or anything, you hate this more than all of those.
Kurt Elster: And what is the thing I hate?
Paul Reda: You hate it when someone does not have a focused menu and places all the products under a single heading that’s like, “SHOP.” And then it’s a dropdown with all the products. But then there’s 10 other things in the menu that are not shop.
Kurt Elster: Oh, even hearing you describe it. Yeah, so I think main menus are like one of the easiest overlooked optimizations for most Shopify stores, because it’s deceptively simple. It’s one of those things where you could… The default setup just is wrong, inherently. All right? And when people go, “Oh, what are your pet peeves about Shopify stores?” I’ll tell you right now it’s number one, if your main menu has a home link. Number two, if all of your products and collections live under a shop dropdown, you get less ire if you use a mega menu for that, but still, don’t do it. And then if you got all kinds of nonsense not related to shopping in that main menu. This drives me insane.
Paul Reda: You know, I wasn’t thinking about this when I picked the store we were doing today, but you’re gonna have a lot of feelings about the store we’re doing today.
Kurt Elster: Oh! Okay, good. It’ll be an illustrated example. So, well, think about this. If you go… Well, those are the three things you shouldn’t do, right? You don’t need the home link. Why? Because everyone knows they can click the logo to go back to home. They could use the back button. And in eCommerce, realistically the homepage is not that important once they have started shopping, right? The homepage is essentially the storefront, it’s an overview, and when they go to a product page, now they’re inside the store and shopping.
That home link really does not need to be in the main menu ever.
Paul Reda: Well, yeah. That’s why we use the metaphor of the funnel, in that every time they make another step down the funnel, you kind of don’t want them to go backwards, like that’s a loss if they have to go backwards.
Kurt Elster: Exactly. And that’s same reason why I don’t like having social media icons, or even blog links in the main menu or in the header, because those things were meant to get people to the site, right? A social media presence, an ad, or a shared post got them to click through to the site. Let’s not send them back to the psychologically-addictive network. And same with the blog. The blog existed to drive organic search from Google to the site. Why are we sending them back to it? We just want them to shop.
But if you look at any major online store, Amazon, Best Buy, Target, Walmart. Their main menu will exclusively link to products or categories. That’s it. There is nothing else in there. Maybe there’s like a comparison or decision site, but that’s just another, an alternative to a shopping page. It’s just a variation on a collection page, really. That’s… I mean, if it’s an online store, it needs to be focused exclusively on shopping, that main menu. Everything else can live in a top menu. It can live in your footer links and people will know to find it there, because that’s also how all the major retail websites do it. All the other info goes into the footer, or if you absolutely need it, you could do like a little support dropdown. And literally call it that. It’s the last link in the main menu. It says, “Support,” and then have some items under it like FAQ, manage my return, where’s my order, Bold Returns Manager and venntov Order Lookup will work for those two, and then a contact us.
Boom. There. I’ve got all my scenarios covered, and then that frees up that rest of that main menu to just be categories and shopping. Now, the reason I think people screw this up is number one, when you spin up a Shopify store, that default main menu is like… I think it just has like home and shop in it.
Paul Reda: It does. Yeah.
Kurt Elster: So, out of the box, Shopify is going, “Hey, here’s what you need.” And then they just, rather than revise those, they slowly add stuff to it, and then pretty soon you have this gigantic, unwieldy menu. So, what do you do? Well, the Shopify menu editor is very easy. You drag and drop this stuff under shop. So, I get why this happens. So, what do we do instead?
Well, I think the… I like that support example. Like first, just remove all the stuff that’s non-shopping related I think is the easy answer. So, footer, top menu, and if you have to, we could put it in a support dropdown at the end of the main menu, but that’s your backup plan if you don’t have any other options.
Paul Reda: Well, and I think there’s space to have not… To have a high up navigation in the page, but not necessarily a main navigation in the page. I think a lot of what we think of as-
Kurt Elster: Talk me through that.
Paul Reda: Sort of like you know that area, sort of an area up top, where we have like a notification bar or whatever, like there’s a lot of stores that have two or three little support-type links up there that’s maybe like about us, or like contact us.
Kurt Elster: The top menu, like Turbo has that top menu above the logo.
Paul Reda: Yeah. I’m talking about something like that, whereas that’s not the main menu.
Kurt Elster: Yeah. Yeah, I like that.
Paul Reda: But it’s not necessarily hidden down in the footer.
Kurt Elster: It’s a secondary header menu.
Paul Reda: And I think the main sin, the main sin we want to eradicate, is mixing… I’m gonna call those supporting links. Mixing supporting links with shopping links. I don’t think, it shouldn’t be in a giant pile. That doesn’t mean the supporting links need to be hidden. Maybe it works better for them to be not only down in the footer, but your best case scenario is to not mix supporting links and shopping links. Which is like that’s truly the sin that we hate.
Kurt Elster: Yes. So, we’ve got like those informational interior brochure pages. We want to get those out. That’s step one. Then step two, all right, at this point we’re left with just a single link that says shop, probably, and it’s a big dropdown. Get rid of shop. Just drag all of that stuff out into parent categories.
So, let’s say you’re an apparel retailer and you sell men’s and women’s clothing. Okay, men is a dropdown, women is a dropdown, and then like new and sale, and ideally men and women can have big mega menus, right? That would be one way to do it. Or actually, a really good apparel mega menu is Hoonigan’s. The Hoonigan.com. That one’s all custom that we did. I like that a lot.
Paul Reda: Yeah, and I mean in terms of mega menus… Well, first off, I think you dove too quick into mega menus. So, first off, take whatever your-
Kurt Elster: I did.
Paul Reda: Whatever your top-
Kurt Elster: Mega menu, it’s an advanced thing to set up.
Paul Reda: It’s an advanced thing. I think the thing is to take your top level navigation categories that are under shop. I mean, under shop, hopefully you only have like four or five choices. Pull those five choices out and make that the main menu. There you go. Now, you could have dropdowns under those, and now those dropdowns could be regular, or they could be mega menus if you want to get crazy with it. But I think that’s the first step, is to break that shop menu out into it just being your sole main menu.
Kurt Elster: All right. Step one, all the info, interior brochure stuff leaves. Goes elsewhere. Top menu, dropdown, or footer menu. Next, we break out my shop menu in two parent categories, so if it’s like shop and then men/women, shirts/pants, shoes/boots, whatever. We start breaking those out by just making them their own parent-level categories in a menu such that we don’t need shop.
Another rule of thumb is you know how phone numbers are seven digits? Well, that’s because seven digits is around like the most people can work with in their head without writing it down, so I try to limit each individual link list to five items if possible. Right? So, my main menu would have like five parent categories, and then maybe seven max, and then each dropdown menu in there ideally has a max of five items, or it’s a mega menu, okay, we can have like… Those are five columns and maybe it’s five link lists in there, and each has five items max.
Paul Reda: Yeah.
Kurt Elster: So, I want to do that.
Paul Reda: And I mean the… What’s the math there? We now have 25 things inside our menu. If you can’t narrow your store down to 25 different collections, you sell too much stuff.
Kurt Elster: Well, another thing that merchants who are early in their experience do is like… All right, the first thing is the like home, shop, about us, contact looking main menu. All right, you move yourself past that, then the next thing you do after you listen to some jackass named Kurt tell you that you did it wrong, you get… The next thing that people do wrong is they go too far the other way and they get too granular. And that’s where you see it’s like a dropdown menu, and it’s like shop, plants, perennials, evergreen, hot, and it drills down three dropdown menus, and the last one is like a literal product link. You don’t have to get that granular with it. If you take me to a collection page that has 24 items on it, that’s completely fine. Then I can use tag filtering, a sidebar filter, sorting, I could figure it out from there.
If you got that far, the next thing you could do is use Google Analytics to figure out revenue per collection, per product type, per page, and then use that to re-sort the menu, so that if possible, like sometimes grouping these things, there’s a natural sense and order to it. But ideally, then you could use Google Analytics to decide what comes first in the list. So, the higher, the stuff more likely to be purchased should go further up in the list, sooner in the list, whatever.
Now, let’s say you’re really struggling with this. You’re like, “I have tried. I cannot wrap my head around it.” All right, the easy way out, not the easy way out, but the best solution here is pretty low tech. Called a card sort exercise. Take all your links, print them on a piece of paper, cut it out, glue them to index cards. And this is… I have just done this for Asutra.com. I’m about to do it for Harney.com. They had big menus, and like at some point, the menu gets so big where you’re like, “I just can’t keep all that in my head and figure out how this thing should be arranged.”
So, all right, you make an index card for every single link and parent category, and then sort them into piles, into groups, where you’re like, “Okay, which of these things makes sense together?” And if you want to get really fancy, you have multiple people do it individually to try and come up with a consensus. Even if you just do it yourself, you’ll be better off. And then from there, then start laying them out on the ground and rearrange your menu that way. Like I literally sit on the floor with these index cards and rearrange them to get to my darn menu system.
Paul Reda: That sounds good. Okay.
Kurt Elster: No! Yeah. So, the last one I did, it was great. I arranged it all on the ground. I took a photo of it. Then I came down the next day. I knew I was getting close, but I wasn’t happy with it. I came down the next day, discovered that our robot vacuum had also decided to rearrange it. There were just like cards everywhere. So, fortunately I had taken a photo. Rearranged it again. And then once I’d slept on it, and this is often the case with decisions, once I slept on it then I was like, “Okay.” It made way more sense and I was able to just quickly rearrange it, take the picture of it, send it to the client and go, “Hey, how does this look? What do you think?” And then rearrange from there.
So, I like those card sorts. Anybody could do it. It’s low tech. You just need index cards. I guess you don’t even necessarily need that. You could just print it on a piece of paper and go. Yeah. If you have like eight items, obviously you don’t have to do this. But if you’ve got… In our example, you could easily get to 25 items. 25 to 50 items in a big menu is not crazy. And that’s where these card sort exercises are helpful.
Paul Reda: Yeah. That’s if you really have crazy amounts of stuff. And then, so I guess then we could move onto mega menus. And you know, mega menus are just instead of text, instead of only text in them, you have like categories, product listings, call to action images, that sort of stuff in a big old menu that has a bunch of things in it. And if you want a great mega menu example, check out KeySmart. GetKeySmart.com. We just launched them.
Kurt Elster: Oh, that one’s so nice.
Paul Reda: I know, that’s-
Kurt Elster: So pretty.
Paul Reda: Yeah. That’s the Turbo mega menu with some bonus modifications by me to add new types inside of them. You know, and a good written mega menu is almost like your homepage, in that it has different little section blocks in it, and then you could add new blocks, and then rearrange them and move them around. So, a mega menu allows you to get way more information than just like, “Shoes,” in there. You could have pictures of shoes. You could have a listing of the best-selling shoes. Because you’re using up the entire screen real estate.
Kurt Elster: Yeah. I like that. The downside to the mega menu is they could be fiddly and a little technical to set up. Many themes now support a mega menu, so it’s like number one, does your theme support it? And then if it does, don’t just go trying to poke around in the theme to figure it out. I could not even do that. If it’s a new theme I haven’t played with, I gotta set up the mega menu, I go find their screencast video on how to do it. Watch that and then you won’t be tearing your hair our. You’ll understand, “Okay, this is how I do it.”
Paul Reda: And if your theme doesn’t support a mega menu, I know like we talk about, “When should I upgrade themes?” That’s sort of a, “You should upgrade themes,” level issue, I think. Because I think any-
Kurt Elster: Well, let’s say-
Paul Reda: Any theme worth its salt released in the last two years has a mega menu.
Kurt Elster: Yeah, that’s probably true. Do you have an estimate of like, “All right, I gotta pay a designer developer to build a mega menu for me into my theme.” What does that take? How realistic is that?
Paul Reda: Well, I’ve done it before, so I don’t think it’s that crazy, like I have it. Like I have the code for it saved, so I could pop it in there.
Kurt Elster: Plausible.
Paul Reda: Yeah, it’s plausible. I mean, it takes a couple days. I mean, it would take a day or two. It would take a day or two, but that’s also because I literally have one in my back pocket that I’ve written, that we’ve injected into other people’s themes. I think I did that for… Who were the guys that do the workout stuff?
Kurt Elster: Well, I don’t know if it’s gonna be a surprise to anybody. I’m not that into the gym, so I don’t remember.
Paul Reda: The women’s workout stuff.
Kurt Elster: Oh! Constantly Varied Gear. The leggings.
Paul Reda: Yeah. Constantly varied gear. Yeah. I wrote that. They needed an entire mega menu from scratch.
Kurt Elster: Actually, I’ve been writing down our mega menu examples, and like good menu examples for people to check out. I put down KeySmart, Hoonigan, CVG.
Paul Reda: Yeah, don’t look at Constantly Varied Gear. Look at KeySmart. KeySmart’s the true winner.
Kurt Elster: Yeah. KeySmart’s really good. It’s image driven. It’s not heavy. And one of the really clever things that site does is some of the parent… They’ve got the support stuff in the main menu, but the shopping links are all bolded, and then the support and info links are not. So, it makes it feel like it’s a secondary menu, but it’s really just the same main menu.
And should we move on to this teardown of this site that I’m not familiar with?
Paul Reda: Sure. Yeah. Because you’re like not really from Chicago, you’re like a fake. You’re like, “I’m not into sports. Or beefs. Or doing things.”
Kurt Elster: Look, I lived in Albany Park, two blocks from Lawrence and Pulaski, behind the world famous Admiral Theater strip club, for many years in wonderful Chicago, Illinois. All right?
Paul Reda: All right, fine.
Kurt Elster: And I was born in Park Ridge, Illinois. Right?
Paul Reda: Yeah.
Kurt Elster: Same as you.
Paul Reda: No, wrong. I was born in Chicago.
Kurt Elster: From there, it’s literally next to the city limits. You walk. We could walk to Chicago and be in Chicago. And we used to take the train downtown. I am Chicago proper. Leave me alone.
Paul Reda: I’m just saying you’re too-
Kurt Elster: So offended.
Paul Reda: You’re too fancy. You’re not a-
Kurt Elster: I’m not into sports. That’s the problem.
Paul Reda: You’re not a blue collar guy like me. That’s what I’m trying to say.
Kurt Elster: I see. Said the eCommerce developer.
Paul Reda: Hey, that’s a-
Kurt Elster: Do you use a shovel when you’re picking up the coal that powers the server and tossing it into the furnace?
Paul Reda: That’s like a building trades job at this point. In our new, modern economy.
Kurt Elster: I see.
Paul Reda: All right, so we’re gonna be tearing down… We’re gonna be looking at Marconi-Foods.com. Marconi, like the guy that invented the radio, dash foods dot com.
Kurt Elster: Marconi like the villain from the first Nolan Batman movie?
Paul Reda: No. That is actually not-
Kurt Elster: He’s the mobster.
Paul Reda: That’s Maroni. It’s Sal Maroni.
Kurt Elster: Maroni! Sorry.
Paul Reda: My God. See what I’m talking about, people?
Kurt Elster: All right, I guess I’m-
Paul Reda: He doesn’t know anything.
Kurt Elster: All I do is disappoint you.
Paul Reda: That’s true. You do.
Kurt Elster: I’m a fraud!
Paul Reda: So, they’re the fine purveyors of Giardiniera and Sport Peppers, and various other Chicago-specific Italian foods, and-
Kurt Elster: Hold on. Tell us why this Giardiniera is important. It says on the bottle, “Original Chicago style.” What would I find this Giardiniera in?
Paul Reda: I don’t know. On everything. It’s like-
Kurt Elster: This is… The Giardiniera is critical to doing a proper Italian beef, which is very much a Chicago thing.
Paul Reda: Well, yes. Or you could put it on pizza. You could put it on hot dogs. I hate it on pizza. My wife loves it on pizza. I find it disgusting.
Kurt Elster: You know, I love spicy, and of course I love pizza, but yeah, I don’t like Giardiniera on pizza. I do, when I still ate meat, Giardiniera on the Italian beefs was critical to the success.
Paul Reda: Yes. I don’t-
Kurt Elster: We could do 20 minutes on what defines a Chicago hot dog.
Paul Reda: That’s true. But yeah, I-
Kurt Elster: And I don’t believe it’s Giardiniera.
Paul Reda: No, it’s not, but I think it still counts. I think you can… it’s like a cousin. And I think you put Giardiniera on beef. I don’t put it on sausage, but if I got a combo, I probably would put it on. So, there you go.
Kurt Elster: Okay, which do you put on your hot dog first, the Giardiniera or the ketchup?
Paul Reda: I put… Oh my God. You monster.
Kurt Elster: All right, so we’re looking at a website?
Paul Reda: Yeah, so Marconi-Foods.com. They’re a local brand. This came to mind because my brother, who lives in San Francisco, was craving some and had to build and buy a build your own Marconi case that he then had shipped to himself, which is one of the services they offer on this website.
Kurt Elster: So, do you know how long this website’s been up? Is this like a… A lot of food brands had to go direct to consumer because of the pandemic.
Paul Reda: I don’t know. They’ve been up. I think it’s been up for a while. They use a theme. They bought a theme off a theme store. It’s Capital by WeTheme. It’s 180 bucks.
Kurt Elster: Okay.
Paul Reda: So, I think they’ve been selling DTC for a while now. But yes, they’re available in all of your finer Chicago grocery stores.
Kurt Elster: You know, and what’s nice is when I do a product like this, where it’s like normally sold in stores, especially a food product where it sits on a shelf, people recognize the label. The color, and the fonts, and the layout, so you want to try and mimic that on the site. And immediately, I see they’ve done that, and they’re lucky. The label’s very straightforward. It’s a few primary colors and what is very clearly Helvetica bold is the font. So, they didn’t even have to load a web font, like boom, you’re good to go. Helvetica. Can’t lose.
Paul Reda: But as we could see… You’re screen sharing this, right?
Kurt Elster: I am recording the screen. I have the homepage up in front of me.
Paul Reda: Okay.
Kurt Elster: I have the popup open. Do we want to address this popup?
Paul Reda: I don’t know. I think I already dismissed it, so I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Kurt Elster: Okay, so it’s got a banner where it shows what is an Italian beef with Giardiniera on it. It’s thrilling. And there’s like a Marconi Brand ribbon or badge on it, and then it says, “Enter your email address to receive exclusive content, offers, recipes, and more!” Have you ever noticed that these emails signups always end with, “And more!” What’s the more?
Paul Reda: Well, just anything that… It could be anything. You better sign up.
Kurt Elster: A personal letter from the CEO.
Paul Reda: In order to get it.
Kurt Elster: Some guy’s gonna email you about how to set up his Wi-Fi.
Paul Reda: So yeah, we go to the menu, main menu here, and what have they done to this menu? They’re committing the cardinal error.
Kurt Elster: Oh my God!
Paul Reda: See, and-
Kurt Elster: All right. Oh, just read the menu while I weep.
Paul Reda: So, we have home, don’t need it, all products with a dropdown, recipes, our tradition, which is pretty much about us, FAQ, in case you got beef FAQs, and contact us. I think the recipes could be interesting. What is this?
Kurt Elster: I got the Law and Order theme, because we are about to hear about the navigation crimes Marconi has committed and has been found guilty.
Paul Reda: Oh my God.
Kurt Elster: All right. I’m doing shtick. I apologize.
Paul Reda: I’m taking that thing away from you. But yeah, look under all products, they have six things under all products. Just make those six things your main menu. Problem solved.
Kurt Elster: Oh. All right, so when I think about the problem with main menus, and on a site like this, it’s a great example. I think about how restaurant websites used to be before Grubhub and DoorDash ran over everybody, and it was always like you landed on the website, and there’s like an animated Flash intro that’s like, “Our food experience.” And all you wanted was the menu, the address, and the times, and that’s it. That was buried and you probably couldn’t get it, and possibly they just uploaded the PDF they sent to the printer for the menu.
That’s how I feel about main menus like this one. It’s like you… If I’m interested in Marconi Foods, they just sell Giardiniera. It’s pickled jalapenos in a jar. I don’t need to learn about their tradition, or their recipes. I already know what I’m doing with it. Their FAQ and contact us, how many people are contacting you that it needs to be in the main menu? Put that in the footer, right? FAQ, I’ll accept. They’ve got a search thing in the upper left. What am I searching for here? There’s six products.
Paul Reda: First of all, there’s way more than six products. There’s just six categories of products.
Kurt Elster: There are?
Paul Reda: Yeah, you jerk.
Kurt Elster: Oh, I thought those were… It’s like, “Olives.” All right, I’m gonna take you to the olives page. No, you’re right. Those are collections.
Paul Reda: Yeah.
Kurt Elster: There’s six collections.
Paul Reda: And second of all, maybe read about their tradition, when Vincent Formusa, who came to this America from Sicily, and his family’s dream of giving us delicious hot peppers. So, leave him alone!
Kurt Elster: All right, I will say the tradition page is very nice. They’ve got these old original photos. One is even sepia toned. Oh, be still my beating heart. And oh, wow, they’re talking about how they moved from downtown to Des Plaines. That’s where we grew up. Right there. Yeah, actually their story, they call it our tradition, that is a perfect about page.
Paul Reda: Yeah. I think-
Kurt Elster: I just wish it had-
Paul Reda: I would put some of that on the homepage.
Kurt Elster: There’s no call to action here. Oh, none of this is on the homepage?
Paul Reda: Yeah, I would scroll down on the homepage, so then we got like condiments that reign supreme. That’s like an ad. We don’t need that. We’re already on the website.
Kurt Elster: Well, right above that it says about us, and you get like a three-sentence version of the about page, but they should have a call to action on there. Like hey! Learn more!
Paul Reda: I would make it smaller and get one of the images, make the text smaller, get one of the images on there, and then you’d have some more text. Give me like one third of that about page.
Kurt Elster: Oh yeah, you’d do the alternating left-right images.
Paul Reda: Yeah. But yeah-
Kurt Elster: Yeah, you’re right.
Paul Reda: Condiments reign supreme. Don’t need that. Why is that even there? You don’t need to sell us on it.
Kurt Elster: Well, and then when you click it, it doesn’t even go anywhere.
Paul Reda: Yep.
Kurt Elster: It’s just an image stuck in the page.
Paul Reda: Then we got Marconi Sport Peppers, Marconi Hot Giardiniera. Definitely their top two selling items, I would say.
Kurt Elster: Right, the Sport Peppers are for Chicago dogs, and the Giardiniera is for Italian beef.
Paul Reda: So, that’s good. I like that. I think the fact that you got the weird little Italian man next to it doesn’t necessarily make it seem like-
Kurt Elster: That’s like a little illustration.
Paul Reda: Yeah, that doesn’t make it seem like it’s an actual product. I guess… Oh, it doesn’t take you to the product page. It takes you to those collections. Because there’s different levels of hot. But then it-
Kurt Elster: Well, actually they go to collections. Both of them go to collections/all. It’s a list-
Paul Reda: Oh.
Kurt Elster: It’s a listing of all the collections on the page.
Paul Reda: That’s terrible.
Kurt Elster: So, that’s a miss. I’m sorry. Collection/all is literally all of your product catalog gets dumped out.
Paul Reda: Yeah. That’s-
Kurt Elster: So, easy fix there.
Paul Reda: That’s a miss.
Kurt Elster: If you’re gonna show me a picture of Sport Peppers or Hot Giardiniera, send me to a collection or product page for those things.
Paul Reda: So, then we got another our tradition that’s taking you to our tradition. And a product-
Kurt Elster: Which again, that just needs, this about us at the top of the homepage, and then our tradition at the bottom, these things just all need to be combined.
Paul Reda: Yeah. And then finally we have a homepage product, which is the Mild Giardiniera, which I think is a bad choice. I think hot has gotta be your biggest seller. I might be wrong, but-
Kurt Elster: Or why can’t it just be a product option, like Giardiniera, heat level.
Paul Reda: Hot, mild.
Kurt Elster: Mild. Hot.
Paul Reda: Another question. Well, and here, let’s notice this. So, a jar of Giardiniera is probably four bucks. Four bucks in a store. Five bucks, maybe. It’s hard to make a profit selling online five dollar items, because you gotta pay for shipping, you gotta pay for packing. I mean, Marconi is a supermarket brand. They’re selling supermarkets cases of it. So, if you look, they get around it by the smallest amount you can buy is a three pack for 12 bucks. Which is an interesting solution that I don’t think I’ve ever seen before from places that are like… Our individual items don’t have enough margins. Okay, we’re just gonna force people to buy multiples. You can’t just buy one.
Kurt Elster: Okay.
Paul Reda: What do you think?
Kurt Elster: You know, normally this would be an issue, but it’s 12 bucks for three. And like three is gonna last me a long time.
Paul Reda: A year. Yeah, at least.
Kurt Elster: Yeah. I mean, how much Giardiniera am I really using? So yeah, I could buy a three pack, six pack, or a case. Now, and it says, “Buy a case and save,” but it doesn’t actually list the savings. So, if you want to do this in Shopify, it’s very easy. You say in the variant option, let’s say… All right, so a three pack is 12 bucks, so they’re four bucks a bottle. So, what you do for the case, where it says 12 jars, you would set compare at price to $48. They’re selling it to 35, so then it would say 48 with a strikethrough and it’d be like 35, you save X percent.
Yeah, so like they’re offering me a deal on this upsell, but then they’re not really doing anything to sell me on it. Like unless I actually do the math to figure it out.
Paul Reda: So, yeah, I wish there was a… Yeah, that’s definitely, just have that right up next to the price up there, and yeah, I think you’re right. Have the three or four heat levels of Giardiniera, have those just be variants.
Kurt Elster: Well, let’s assume… Since this stuff is here, this is what they’re known for, this is their best-selling product, why is this not the first thing on the homepage? I had to really…I had to scroll past a bunch of nonsense, an image that doesn’t go anywhere, a sentence fragment of an about page, two links about their best products that don’t go to the right link, a giant image of some hot dogs that also goes to the about page, and then finally one product.
Paul Reda: Yeah. Bad choice.
Kurt Elster: Yeah. Alternatively, what would be cool is just a feature collection, best sellers, and that’s the second thing. It’s like hero image, ideally hero video, and then Giardiniera peppers. Just a collection of my Giardiniera peppers. Relish. Yeah, they got relish, they got hot.
Paul Reda: And then, so and then they got this thing here if you scroll down a little more, they got kind of a collection listing of Giardiniera and peppers. And they have this build your own case option, which… Let’s click on that. I mean, because that’s I think… Maybe, I think that’s going pretty well for them. That’s what led me here in the first place. So, you build your own-
Kurt Elster: Oh, build your own case.
Paul Reda: Yeah, of six different jars of whatever various products you want. All their jars, they use one jar for all their products, so it doesn’t matter.
Kurt Elster: Hold on, there’s a display issue I need to point out.
Paul Reda: Okay.
Kurt Elster: Two issues with their featured collection. One, it’s a slider instead of a grid, and the buttons are gray on a gray background.
Paul Reda: Oh, I-
Kurt Elster: So, most people are not gonna notice that this is a slider.
Paul Reda: I didn’t.
Kurt Elster: It’s okay to use a grid.
Paul Reda: Yeah, I didn’t know that at all. I didn’t notice that.
Kurt Elster: Like if you’re so afraid of showing more than four products, then just show four products. Or man up and put a grid, a collection grid in here. I don’t know why everybody uses this slider for feature collections on the homepage. Makes me crazy.
And then the other issue besides that is they’ve got this really nice, consistent photos, except for the build your own case, which is a different size than the others. So, in the theme they could have… There’s ways to fix that with a little bit of custom styling, or just crop everything to the same ratio.
All right, but now I have headed to the build your own page.
Paul Reda: Yeah, so build your own case, six pack for 20 bucks, which is also what we were gonna be charged for our Giardiniera. We’re gonna be charged 20 bucks for six of them.
Kurt Elster: Oh boy. I just… I read how it works.
Paul Reda: Yeah, so here’s the problem. We have a product builder app where we’re bundling, we’re building product bundles, essentially is what’s happening here. And the way that they handle it is you’re just gonna buy the build your own case, and then when you go in the checkout, there’s gonna be a field that says, “Special Instructions,” and you need to type out the six products you want from them, and then they will fill your case for you.
Kurt Elster: Literally. Customize your own case of 12 Marconi Giardiniera products! Again, no exclamation points. We’re not selling tickets to the circus. Please enter in the special instructions during checkout which of the Giardiniera products you would like in your case. For example, you may say you’d like six jars of hot and six jars of mild, or you may say you’d like two jars of hot, two jars of medium, and two jars of mild Giardiniera, and six jars of hot Giardiniera relish. What the heck? Could you imagine, like the customer support nightmare this thing must be, or do you think they just kind of like… They interpret. They do like a creative interpretation of I’m sure the crazy misdirections that people type in this thing? Or are they just like on the phone all the time calling people, like, “Hey-“
Paul Reda: I hope for their sake that this is not very popular, because I can imagine supporting it.
Kurt Elster: Your brother did it!
Paul Reda: I know. I could imagine it being a nightmare.
Kurt Elster: And then they’ve got the social share buttons on there under the product form. Oh, get rid of those things. If you heatmap it, I guarantee one out of 2,000 people at best use them.
Paul Reda: Just if we progress, let’s go to a normal product page.
Kurt Elster: Well, one of the other issues here, they’ve got the product form below the description.
Paul Reda: Which we don’t like.
Kurt Elster: Yeah. I’d always flip it. I want that product form up higher. It drives me-
Paul Reda: There’s just a lot of unnecessary space here. It’s like you got this build your own case, and then you got the rule between it, like we could really push all… I think they have a pretty big header that’s unnecessarily big. We could push a lot of this stuff up. I know you poo-pooed their search thing, but I just want to point out here, that search thing up top, the placeholder text, what can we help you find? That’s a great move.
Kurt Elster: I like that.
Paul Reda: Because a lot of times places leave it blank, or they just put search in there, and we did this on a store. How much did the searches increase by when we actually made the search bar call to action more of a question than just a label?
Kurt Elster: I don’t remember, but it was significant.
Paul Reda: Yeah. It was something ridiculous, like search bar use increased by like 40% or something nuts.
Kurt Elster: Which, yeah, a question is a great customer service-oriented call to action and prompts them to enter in the correct thing. What can we help you find? All right, you don’t even have to… When you use a search bar and you have it prominent and set up correctly, you actually don’t have to worry quite as much about the importance of your main menu structure. And that’s what Amazon, that’s what all these major retail sites and marketplaces do. The main menu is like a total secondary thing to the almighty search input. That’s how I hear they’ve got it.
Paul Reda: Yeah, who goes through the Amazon menu? No one.
Kurt Elster: Yeah. I can’t say I’ve ever done that. So, what should I type in this search bar?
Paul Reda: Let’s buy some Sport Peppers. Oh, auto complete.
Kurt Elster: Okay, search results for Sport Peppers. Is it Sport or Spore?
Paul Reda: Sport.
Kurt Elster: It is? Oh.
Paul Reda: What’s a Spore Pepper? So yeah, we’re going to regular. Regular old jar of Sport Peppers.
Kurt Elster: There’s no images in the search results, but it includes the variants.
Paul Reda: It does.
Kurt Elster: Isn’t that unusual?
Paul Reda: I don’t think it includes the variants.
Kurt Elster: Yeah. Three pack, six pack, case.
Paul Reda: Oh.
Kurt Elster: Five gallon bucket.
Paul Reda: Oh, okay. You actually… I actually clicked on the product in the auto complete.
Kurt Elster: Oh, I got the search results.
Paul Reda: Okay.
Kurt Elster: It also does it in a two-column grid, which is unusual.
Paul Reda: Yeah, you’re right. The images are broken in the search results.
Kurt Elster: Yeah, there’s no images and it’s a two-column grid.
Paul Reda: Come on, guys.
Kurt Elster: Maybe they’re not broken. Maybe they’re not meant to be there. That’s just the layout.
Paul Reda: Well, it’s a bad one.
Kurt Elster: Yeah, I mean search results implies a list, so ideally you’d want a list, like I want a single column.
Paul Reda: No, there is a figure class there that has an image inside of it, but for some reason that image has-
Kurt Elster: Didn’t load?
Paul Reda: … a bunch of bad CSS on it to… Because the image is like a background image, so it doesn’t cause the item to expand. So, yeah, it’s just broken. They broke it.
Kurt Elster: So, I click through to the Sport Peppers PDP, product detail page, and yeah, there is… They had this huge story in the our tradition page, and then the Sport Peppers description, this is like… It literally says the authentic Chicago-style hot dog pepper, so we need these, all right? There’s just one line description. That’s it. The label itself has more info.
Paul Reda: Yeah. The original Chicago hot dog pepper, sold in 16oz jars. Okay, great. Thanks.
Kurt Elster: And there’s a single photo. So, anytime you’re selling something in a bottle or jar that has a label, whether it’s beer, Sport Peppers, or nutritional supplements, you have that label saved as a file somewhere for printing. Just export that as a .jpg or .png. .png, it’s a graphic. And upload that right here. That will give people more info. Now they can actually read the label as though they were in the store. I think that’s an important thing to do. If your product has a label, just include a screenshot of the darn label.
Paul Reda: Yeah, and so again, we have this thing, you can’t buy one. You gotta by a three, six, or a 12 pack. But there’ just… Yeah, there’s nothing here that’s selling me on this product. The product description is eight words. There’s nothing about Marconi. There’s not giant hero images of delicious hot dogs. There’s so many things they could do if they put in even a modicum of effort here, and they didn’t do any of it at all.
Kurt Elster: So, I went to their Instagram and it’s not been updated in over a month, but obviously they’ve got a lot of food photos, and there’s some good photos in there. So, right there, they have… Those are lifestyle photos. They could, for each product you pick one, like the authentic Chicago-style hot dog. So, put a picture of Sport Peppers on a Chicago-style hot dog, and that’s our second photo. First photo is the jar, second photo is action shot, it is the hot dog, and then third would be the label. Already I got more info out of this thing doing that.
Paul Reda: Yeah.
Kurt Elster: Also, this theme suffers borderitis. There are so many-
Paul Reda: Horizontal rules. Everywhere.
Kurt Elster: … horizontal dividing lines. Above the fold, I’ve got one, two, three, four, five for a product that has a two-line description.
Paul Reda: Yeah. I just think the lack of photography, or description text, or anything is like a real detriment to what they’re doing here.
Kurt Elster: Yes.
Paul Reda: So, let’s add a three pack to cart. That was a little to subtle in my mind. When we click add to cart.
Kurt Elster: Yeah, wow. Wait. Well, so this is a pet peeve for me. Another one. If I click add to cart, what do you think I want to do next? You think I want to keep staring at that product detail page that I just stuck in my cart? Of course not! Just take me, either open a modal that says, “Hey, what do you want to do here?” Or just take me to the darn cart page, right?
Paul Reda: And we’ve shown, we’ve done studies personally that taking people to the cart page is a better choice.
Kurt Elster: It will almost always increase your reach checkout percentage. Now, the reason people push back against it is, “Oh, it’ll lower my average order value.” It really doesn’t. I promise. Try it. It will not impact your average order value. Still, my favorite though is drawer cart. You’re getting the best of everything with a drawer cart. The cart, the advantage to that cart page, though, is you can make it function like a landing page, where you strip a lot of stuff out of it, and you can also get a lot more information in there.
I also like that instead of… They don’t call it shopping cart. The headline here is your cart. That will perform marginally better.
Paul Reda: Yeah, and also on this cart page, it’s just update and checkout. I would prefer to see your checkout, proceed to checkout, something like that. Proceed to checkout’s the way to go.
Kurt Elster: Right. There’s also a minor labeling issue here.
Paul Reda: Yeah.
Kurt Elster: Do you see, it says total, and then below total it says shipping and taxes applied at checkout. So, there’s a word for what that line is then. It is a subtotal, right? Not a total.
Paul Reda: All right, well-
Kurt Elster: So, you could call it a subtotal and then you’d get rid of the shipping and taxes applied at checkout line. We’ve got our add special instructions, which is used exclusively for the build your own pack. Yeah, so what you could do if you wanted to get fancy with this, you rename the add special instructions so it says like, “Specify your Giardiniera, build your own pack here.” And then tell me if this would work, you’re the theme developer. Could I wrap that in a liquid if-then statement, so it only appears if I have, like if cart contents product title is Giardiniera pack, then it displays the add special instructions field.
Paul Reda: Yeah. I mean, you would just easily do that with… You give the build your own pack its own tag and then say, “If any items in the cart contain that tag, which would only be that one item, if that shows up, then make that thing appear. Otherwise, don’t have it appear.” That’s very easy.
Kurt Elster: Gotcha. The other thing I don’t… I don’t see any free shipping nudge anywhere. I don’t know if they don’t do it, or we just don’t know what the threshold is.
Paul Reda: Yeah, there’s no… Oh, you know what? My brother was all ready to go and he got hit with surprise shipping charges during the course of his checkout and he was mad about that, so we will be hit with our surprise shipping charges later.
Kurt Elster: It always stops me. Especially when it’s the less expensive the item is. Like if I’m spend a hundred bucks and I get hit with $5 shipping, who cares? Like I just bought some hard drives. That happened. I was like, “I don’t care about the shipping at that point.” It’s mildly annoying at best. But if I’m buying an inexpensive item, like I wanted to buy a body scrubber to replace my crappy loofa, the item was 12 bucks and they hit me for $7 shipping. I was like, “I’m out.” It took me like a month of thinking about it and almost buying it three times before I did it. You gotta give me that free shipping threshold.
Paul Reda: Yes. I agree.
Kurt Elster: You want to head to the checkout?
Paul Reda: Yeah, let’s go to the checkout.
Kurt Elster: I’m in the checkout.
Paul Reda: Not even styled. Like there’s a little mark.
Kurt Elster: They added the logo.
Paul Reda: But it’s so tiny.
Kurt Elster: But of all their logos, they pick the one that’s illegible.
Paul Reda: But I mean, they had this-
Kurt Elster: Right? Like just use the-
Paul Reda: They have this distinctive red color. It’s like why aren’t we using… I mean, the Marconi label, it’s red and yellow. It’s distinctive red and yellow. Why is this checkout not red and yellow?
Kurt Elster: Yeah. Well, yeah, I want… The primary call to action buttons on the site were all red, so I want my buttons in the checkout to be red. And then we could probably do a gold color for the links maybe, or just leave them. The logo, I’m not sure why you wouldn’t just reuse the logo from the site itself, because that worked. That would fit here. Then it’s consistent. Yeah, that’s a bit of a misstep. I would love to see what the shipping, how they set up the shipping options, but the moment I do it it’s gonna display my address.
Paul Reda: All right, I’m typing mine in.
Kurt Elster: Okay.
Paul Reda: Let’s see what they do to me. Calculating. What! I’m buying $12 worth of Sport Peppers. I’m in the same county as them. $12 of product is being shipped to the same county as their factory, $13 shipping. The shipping is more than the product I’m buying.
Kurt Elster: Whoa! All right. And there’s no way out of it, because they don’t do free shipping. You couldn’t be like, “All right, I’m gonna buy one of everything.” Make the free shipping threshold 35 bucks, and then I’d do like a sample pack of all different Marconi Foods products, because I love the Giardiniera, I love the Sport Peppers. All right, maybe I’ll check out the pasta sauce and some of the other stuff they do. And then I get to 35 bucks-
Paul Reda: The crushed tomatoes are very good.
Kurt Elster: See, I haven’t tried them. And the free shipping then becomes the nudge to try the crushed tomatoes. I feel bad that we’ve crapped on this Chicago institution.
Paul Reda: Well, they gotta get their act together.
Kurt Elster: I’m glad they have made their products online. And then I also did, if you go to collection/all and sort by popular, that gives you best seller, and you were like, “Why did they list,” you know, we were talking, “Why did they list the mild on the homepage, there’s no way that’s the most popular.” You’d be right. The Hot Giardiniera is their number one selling product in this store. So, it is odd that the third most popular product is the only one you can buy directly from the homepage. Right?
And then we were wondering, does anyone actually do this build your own case, and if they do, does this create this customer service nightmare? Well, I can tell you, build your own case is the second most popular product.
Paul Reda: Oh. Well, there you go.
Kurt Elster: Yeah. So, like clearly, if that’s your second best seller, you should put in the effort to figure out how to do this without it being a nightmare for everybody involved. Maybe we’re wrong. Maybe it’s just like it’s fine for everybody.
Paul Reda: I don’t know. If they ever want to be truly big, they need to get their act together.
Kurt Elster: Right. Yeah. Yeah. I need Dot’s Pretzels levels of success here.
Paul Reda: Correct.
Kurt Elster: I’m sure they’re extremely successful. It’s this storied local institutional brand.
Paul Reda: Yeah, they have placement in like every grocery store in the area.
Kurt Elster: Yes. No, we’re crapping on this website, but the reality is they’re printing money hand over fist, I’m sure. One thing I do appreciate is if you go through their interior pages, like distributors, and privacy, they’re very clearly using a page template called page.narrow, where if you’ve got… If you’ve ever read a newspaper or magazine, you’ve got those very narrow columns for the text. That’s because it makes it easy to read. If you have a piece of paper where the text is printed end to end, it makes it harder to read. So, to encourage people to actually read a page, you make your column widths narrower, and you could see this like in emails, too. They’ll set the column width narrow. And so, I appreciate that the privacy page and the distributors page have gotten that treatment.
And then I had to the FAQ page. And it’s just literally, they’ve just made a page. It’s not a special template, and they’ve got the questions are bolded and then the answers are tab indented. There’s not too many questions, so I think it’s fine, but I would love this if we just made the question text really big, so it’s easier to find and read. Maybe they could be an accordion menu. If they had more stuff, we could group them together. Or am I just overthinking it?
Paul Reda: You’re overthinking it. This FAQ page is fine.
Kurt Elster: All right, fine.
Paul Reda: All right.
Kurt Elster: Any other thoughts on this site?
Paul Reda: I think that’s it. I think if the Marconi people want to hire us, we will do work for product.
Kurt Elster: How many? That’s a lot of Giardiniera.
Paul Reda: Well, lifetime supply.
Kurt Elster: Yeah. It would be quite a lot.
Paul Reda: I mean, a five gallon bucket’s only 50 bucks.
Kurt Elster: That’s a lot of Giardiniera.
Paul Reda: How long would it take you to go through five gallons?
Kurt Elster: I don’t know that I’ve ever purchased food in a five gallon bucket. A popcorn bucket is what, how many gallons is a popcorn bucket?
Paul Reda: No idea.
Kurt Elster: Two? One and a half?
Paul Reda: I don’t know.
Kurt Elster: It’s hard to say. All right, that concludes our Marconi Foods teardown. That was fun. It was nice to do something different.
Paul Reda: Good.
Kurt Elster: And now I really want to eat something spicy. Anything else before we wrap it up?
Paul Reda: I think we’re good. We’ve wasted these people’s time long enough.
Kurt Elster: I deeply apologize. So, as always, please join our Facebook group. Search Unofficial Shopify Podcast Insiders on Facebook. And I am so proud of that group. There are so many great discussions happening where… What I love to see now is a majority of discussions are a person posts a question or a problem, and the group comes and helps them out and figures out a solution. I learn a lot from that group now, and then often as I’m going through and approving posts, if it’s somewhere I’m like, “Oh, I know the answer to that right away.” Okay, then I will go and personally answer it. And I’ve seen you troubleshoot people’s CSS bugs. That’s always nice to see, where it’s like, “Oh yeah, here. That’s this weird problem.” But because you’ve touched hundreds of themes at this point, you’re like, “Well, here’s the quick solution to that.” That’s always cool.
And lastly, final note, wear your mask so that it covers your nose, all right?
Paul Reda: Yeah. Come on.
Kurt Elster: It’s not doing a lot when the nose is out.
Paul Reda: Seeing a lot of noses out. That being said, I see 100% mask wearing everywhere. At least, like Cook County, people are going all-in on it. And I appreciate that.
Kurt Elster: My brother-in-law’s in McHenry County. This is a real Illinois joke. He’s in McHenry County, and I was like, “So, they wearing masks there?” He’s like, “It’s McHenry. No.” So, your wife’s a nurse. Does she just like… Does she scream internally or externally when she sees the improper mask usage?
Paul Reda: It’s internal screaming. She’s not looking to yell at people. She has enough stress in her job already.
Kurt Elster: Okay. I understand.
Paul Reda: With the death. So, she’s not looking to cause more stress.
Kurt Elster: All right, and on that note, let’s end the show.
Paul Reda: All right.
Kurt Elster: Thanks for listening. Appreciate you guys.
Paul Reda: Goodbye.